I have been working as often as possible to complete my BSG models, every build revels something new to fix, and I am proud to say I am most likly a month or so off from having a completely finished model! All that is left is to finish the Cockpit interior, and to do a instruction build, and you all can have it.

Until then...here are some photos for you.
http://wwgallery.pcinfoman.com/index.php?cat=10065

Sorry they are not in the order I wished them to be. But this would be an example of what I am looking for in a fighter.

Once I finish the cockpit, I will do a build and take pictures to create a guide.

Let me know what you think of my vipers so far. And once I relase them to you guys feel free to take and modify to your hearts content (you guys being the one other person out there interested in them )

Shadow Viper Mk3 is my favorite to date. Tres stylish.

So all the new ones are your own creation, with no files to start from?

Quite cool! What method do you use to create your models? Do you start with a 3d model?

Look forward to the finished ones.

Hm... how close are these models to the ones of the "unmentionable" company you posted a while earlier?

Even though you've made these from scratch, and therefore it should be ok with Denny to post them here... is it really fair to that other company - much as some people here might dislike it?

What if someone posted a set of free models on that other company's website - made from scratch, but a spitting image of Denny's latest Mars Station set? I'm sure Denny wouldn't be too happy about that, because it'll take sales away from his own sets.

I haven't seen that other company's models, so I don't know how much overlap there is with what you've done. But I would recommend you keep this in mind before posting your own free models online...


Nice work though!

Considering I did the second batch from scratch, I would say there isn't a problem. Besides which, the engines (which are the closest thing to the other sites 'design') will be retooled. As for spitting image....not really. Now the first set was...man oh man spitting image of their stuff.

As for how much is mine, this time around all but the art on the cockpit and in the cockpit...though I am currently doing my own artwork and designing my own pieces for it. The engines in are a a scratch redo using eyeball guessing from my old models, and mesuring the need on my new ones. THe wings are all me, the nose is a mod of my scratch built engins.

I am completly redoing the engines however, looking towards a more round look as I also taper the nose to a cone shape. I also want to make open sections that look into engin parts, but I am going to cool on my vipers for a little as my BSG game wraps up (return to it after the new year) and go back to work on my Firefly ship. Which has been mostly built, but now needs some finishing work.

Oh off topic note: First Light Retrofit, the chunky pieces, page one, where there are three one inch collums. I print out the floor sections I need on sticker paper, place it on my foam core. I then use those collums every 5 inches, following the path of the wall design, then I take the 'walls' I want, and (the double thick walls, you know in and out) and cut off the floor connecting tabs and glue them to the collum along the out side. This make for extreamly sturdy model, and for a really straight wall. The wall sections are cut for a five inch section, four in the middle and a half on each end. Keeps from overlaps. I just discovered this as I was makeing 14'' by 14'' cargo hold. Adjustments can be made acordingly.

So when the time comes, Denny, you okay with me posting my vipers?

Oh the art work, BSG logos, squad logos, where pulled from the net.

As far as I know, making your own Vipers would fall under the 'Fair Use' clause of copyright law. When you freely provide files for others to use, it starts falling intoa very grey area. In my experience, the ability for fans to create derivative works and post them online often comes down to the leaning of the copyright holders. Each copyright holder has different rules or things that they either crack down on or turn a blind eye to. 20th Century Fox always comes down hard, Games Workshop has an 'it's okay if you don't abuse our property' policy, and LucasFilm/Arts can swing either way when works are created. You may want to see if the copyright holders for BSG have a posted standing policy.

Of course, the big no-no's would be, in my view, a for-profit company such as WorldWorks enabling or sanctioning the distribution of derivative works, or any kind of tangible profit arising from their distribution or creation. For example, I could easily interpret a store such as WorldWorks to be profiting from the posting/hosting of free derivative works, as these could be seen to attract customers, etc. And if I could easily interpret it as that, I'm sure lawyers could too.

I'm not sure if, for example, creating a website to post the works on would be a good idea, as I'm not sure of the leanings of the copyright holders. If it turns out that they're okay with the derivative works, then you can make your own judgement call. What would be most important, though, would be to keep your derivative works safely detached from anyone who could be considered profiting from them. The PM's and private sharing would be a good way to do this.

I used to be pretty active in creating pc game mods (back when the big ones were called "TC's", or "total conversions", ah, memories...), and each copyright holder acted differently towards fan projects. Thus, it was important to stay abreast of 'fair use' and any rules which might apply. It seems that many holders will turn a blind eye to derivative works, as they are obligated by law to protect their copyright or face losing it. This is one reason why many fan groups asking for permission never receive a response. So, if the copyright holder pretends not to know about a work, then they can let it exist in peace, but if they acknowledge it, they are forced to send the kiss of death; a "cease and desist" letter. Even if they appreciate or enjoy the work, they often will not give official permission or endorsement for the same reason that Denny can't: it creates all sorts of really messy legal issues.

I could be wrong about most of this, but this is how I've interpreted it over the years.

In any case, creating derivative works is a really grey area, and the whole thing ends up being a grey area. A good FAQ I found on creating fan fiction while trolling Lulu's self publishing website has some great interpretations of fair use and how it applies to derivative works:



My change.

Nice builds, btw.

Hi Legacyicon! I'm sorry if you felt like we were picking on you. That was certainly not my intention. I think you're doing some great work, with some far-from-trivial geometries.

It's just that you unwittingly stumbled into a topic which in the past has touched some sensitive nerves and caused some lively discussions.

To give you a bit of background: When Denny came out with Chunky Dungeons, another company (who shall remain nameless - may their models be infested with fleas) came out with its own dungeon set which was *remarkably* similar to CD. So similar that it seems unlikely it would have been developed independently, without seeing at least some prototype or parts list of CD. Denny naturally became quite irate about this other company "stealing" his designs - even though they may very well have used CD only as inspiration, creating their own models from scratch (in which case they probably wouldn't have broken any copyright laws).

Ever since, Denny has taken the high road, and has attempted to contact other model companies to coordinate new releases and avoid overlap or unfair competition. Most cardstock modeling companies seem to have no interest in such a "gentleman's agreement", with the exception of Mel Ebbles, with whom WWG has an excellent working relationship.

We definitely want to avoid WWG being accused of encouraging the type of behavior Denny has been railing against all these years, even if it's a 100% fan-created model...

Anyway, no more legacybashing... back to kitbashing! Hope you'll stick with us - I'd love to see some more of your work. We're not usually this anal, honestly!


[Denny, feel free to pipe up if I misrepresented your position on this...]