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| Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) http://www.worldworksgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7777 |
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| Author: | menace [ 03-21-2012, 12:38 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
Unfortunately, what MrKen said isn’t far from the truth. I started on the conversion of the cathedral when TLX first came out, because I loved the system. I did it mainly as a personal project. I had started on a static cathedral build before, but never finished it and the modularity spoke to me. It got me noticed by Denny and he recruited me (yay!), with the idea that I would continue converting and could eventually put it on sale in the store. The problem came when I started on the roofs. There was no roof system for TLX at that moment. The cathedral also uses a different standard (3" high walls instead of TLX’s 2: high walls). That, combined to the fact that there still weren’t buildings for Himmelveil resulted in Denny asking me to convert Thoumont’s first. So I set out to do Thoumont’s, including a complete new roofing system. After that came The garden and the Oubliette (because people had been waiting for those for a long time too). The original idea had always been to restart on the cathedral afterwards. The problem now is that I learned quite a bit by now when compared to when I started my conversion on the cathedral. Which resulted in me not being happy about my original work anymore. I especially think I missed a big opportunity when making the walls and posts. To put it shortly, they aren’t compatible with standard 2" high TLX walls. Without going too much into details, a big 4" wall isn’t 4" high. It is a bit higher because it has to accommodate for the extra floor tile in-between, so that you could put a 4" wall next to a 2 story building and still result in a flush top. In that same logic, a 6" wall (the size of the cathedral’s original walls) should be as high as a 3 story building. It isn’t at the moment. So releasing the cathedral like I would want it would mean I have to redo all the walls, all the posts and columns and make the roofing system, all with completely new templates to boot. Basically, all I could keep are the floors and the props. With such a gargantuan task in mind, I thought it better to try scratching that creative itch that had grown in the back of my mind from spending to ouch time looking at all the gorgeous stuff Denny, Matt and Paul came up with. The result is found in The inn of the Feisty Friar. Long story short: sadly, the cathedral has been shelved for now. I have other things I want to work on where I think I could better direct my attention. I am too much in a creative rush, so I want to create new stuff. Maybe a day will come when I start revisiting the cathedral (when I hit an absolute designer’s block, who knows), but I can’t make any promises. |
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| Author: | mrken [ 03-21-2012, 05:56 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
Menace, please don't take this the wrong way. With the flaws you mentioned, I don't think there are many who would fault you for your custom wall heights. Someone on this thread mentioned how cathedrals tended to be stand alone buildings set out from all the other buildings. Personally speaking, but I am sure there are those who agree with me on this, we really don't give a rip about how flexible, or interchangeable, or how well they will combine with other TLX pieces. Personally, I would not mind using the pieces in this set only for this one building and never again use them. I would be satisfied to own a one off set that looks this awesome. Which, now forces me to go look at the original piece. Except for the fact I really don't have a place in my game for an "evil" cathedral, or even a cathedral. But who knows, one day. Anyway, I really enjoy your work. Think I have all the sets you have worked on except the Gardens one. But then, I don't know all that you do. lol |
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| Author: | Veskit [ 03-21-2012, 08:44 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
You still have the files right? Could it be submitted as a kitbash just as you've got it now so people who own (or buy!) the cathedral could continue where you left off? I'm sure there is some creative type that would take over TLX of the roof (or we would build the roof as it is in the original kit to add on top). This is such great work it would be a shame not to let other people enjoy it. The cathedral has some amazing textures of which I haven't bought due to the sheer storage requirement it would need. A TLX version that could be broken down is just what I would need to put me over the top, and the different sized walls I think makes a welcome level change to some of the other buildings. With this I may even get excited enough to build up a whole city for a Malifaux board! |
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| Author: | mrken [ 03-21-2012, 09:37 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
Yeah, releasing it as a kit bash would be great. Let someone else do the flying buttresses and the roof. This really would be a great set even without them, but to have them would be so sweet. Kind of like the Maiden, a center piece, all by itself. Sorry, I meant a Conversation piece. 
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| Author: | greypilgrim [ 03-22-2012, 02:38 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
I second mrken's motion for the very same reasons. |
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| Author: | tatteredking [ 03-23-2012, 04:22 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
I've gotta say that I would still like to see the cathedral TLX. I don't care that the walls are taller than the buildings beside it, or that the floors aren't going to be exactly the same height as other things near them. In the middle ages, and even the Rennaissance, there were no building codes that stated "walls must be 10' high and with building floors no more than 10' between the top of one floor and the top of the floor above it". Roof system could be done similar to Thoumonts. You would just need to work on a 'flying truss' system. |
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| Author: | mrken [ 03-23-2012, 05:47 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
While I can see the value we all have gained from the experience gathered and the innovations found. In my opinion, it is still a shame to allow those files to gather dust, and not draw in any income for the work already invested. But we all know Denny's commitment to the utter most degree of perfection. It is that striving for perfection that has brought us the TLX and all the new stuff we see lately. There is no denying how far the sets have become since the old days. How many sets have we seen disappear that we were going to buy simply because he couldn't justify the old standards and quality that have been left behind. Different standards folks. If I were running the store, I would have a discontinued bin. Half off forever. lol But then, I'm not Denny, and you all can be thankful for that. |
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| Author: | joydyhee [ 03-23-2012, 07:06 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
This poses an interesting point...do TLX need to be 100% compatible in terms of like objects (floors = floors, walls = walls, etc.). It seems the current position is YES, which is fine as everything works together. However, as others have said recently, perhaps consideration can be made for different sizes, either different "standard" sizes (floors 6x6, 3x6, 3x3, etc.) and also allow for unique pieces like in the case of CN. Or, perhaps, a line of oversized TLX where the floors are the same size (or a derivative of said sizes) while allowing for "great hall" style open and large rooms. I see CN (or just houses of worship in general), castles/keeps, large outbuildings, factories, etc. falling into this category. They can still hook into TLX but are made for those building where where there are typically a lot of airspace. |
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| Author: | mproteau [ 03-23-2012, 07:40 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
My tiny brain has been wrestling with the argument of being pure TLX or not. I like knowing that all TLX is compatible. WWG has done a good job of branding the different sets so customers who don't live in the forums can have a clue as to what they are getting. I can wire a dwarven wall to a garden post, and have my elves and dwarves live happily together. I can't see doing it right now, but what is stopping some creative person to want to attach some cathedral walls to a cliff and build out the building from there? But at the same time, I'd rather have an almost TLX cathedral than no cathedral at all. I wonder if releasing it as a "kitbash" rather than a product would make everyone happy. I'd pay the $12 to get the cathedral if I knew I could get a mostly-converted, kinda-compatible version as a kitbash. Maybe someone will bash more of it. Maybe not. Maybe *I* would bash more of it! Maybe not. Maybe someday WWG will produce a full TLX cathedral, and I'll be no worse off than if I had bought the cathedral from the vault as it is. The cathedral building is really gorgeous, and I hate seeing sets that are really gorgeous that I won't buy because I know I won't have space to keep the thing. |
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| Author: | joydyhee [ 03-23-2012, 08:48 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
See, I think Hinterland Cliffs TLX was the first step with the double-height and nonstandard geometry...just apply that to other projects. The will always be a core set, but diverging from this opens up a many more realms of possibilities. Perhaps a line of TLX-Core where all the geometry meets the exact standards set up in the original sets and a line of TLX-Expanded which have unique or add-on options which may or may not have every part compatible. Obviously some features will be through all - tile connections, wall tabs, posts, etc., but they may be in different sizes and shapes. |
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| Author: | menace [ 04-01-2012, 11:48 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
Sorry to disappoint you guys, There is 1 thing we hold to very dearly here at WWG and that’s quality. In short, we only sell stuff that we can get behind for the full 100%. Nothing less. If I release a set, I want to know that is the best I could have done for it. I expected nothing less when I was still a happy customer here, so I expect nothing less from myself now that I am a designer. You see, it’s not just a matter of compliance or compatibility. It’s a matter of possibilities. TLX is designed in a way that you can put 2 2" walls on top of each other top make a 4" wall. This gives you infinitely more ways to combine different elements to make a special lay-out. The cathedral as it is at the moment has an arbitrary height for 3" walls and an arbitrary height for 6" walls. You can’t stack 2 3" walls to make 1 6" wall and that is just a huge shame. Because the possibilities are infinitely bigger if you could. So I am very sorry and I know I am disappointing a lot of folks here with this, but I really can’t release something if I know that it could be so much better. Releasing this as-is would just feel... dirty. Even if we released it as a kitbash. When I go to a restaurant, I expect them to serve me a hamburger. Not some ground beef and a baked bun, with a not telling me to cook the meat before eating it. That is exactly why I only want to release this when it is complete and when it is the best set it could be. Once again guys, sorry to disappoint. |
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| Author: | mrken [ 04-02-2012, 06:41 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
We can dream can't we? Yeah, I think we all understand the quality thing over there. Maybe we just have a different definition of quality, or, perhaps the level of quality that we expect is different. I don't know. But when I looked at those photos, I saw quality all over the place. Perhaps we just need to agree that you didn't use the standards that WWG uses, ie: the 2 inch wall, not a non standard 3 inch wall. I'm ok with the decision of WWG not wanting to run with your version of the cathedral. In my opinion, it was a great resume. Besides, we still have the original, though now it is not as beautiful as it once was thanks to some innovative designer, it is still a beauty. I just hope I get around to buying it before it become too long in the tooth for Denny. You know, he seems to like younger models.  Now, I am off to continue building my Wyndy Inn. Thanks for your work. That is turning out to be a pretty spectacular set. Like Thoumonts, highly versatile, and that goes back to Denny's standards again. You see, it all works out in the end, thanks to a dream and farsighted thinking. |
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| Author: | Gamesmith Denny [ 04-02-2012, 07:37 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
So here's the thing with Tomas's conversion. When he first did the conversion, he did it for himself first and foremost (this was prior to him working with us). As a consequence, he did what we all do when doing projects for ourselves, or in other words he didn't format it in way that worked as a commercial product. Dimensionally it didn't share the same standards as other TerrainlinX offerings and generally everything was a thrown together as a mix of elements that no one but Tomas was intended to see. Fast forward to today, Tomas's time is short (he has another full-time job) and the projects he takes on, he does because he's really motivated to do so. Going back in to reformat, make dimensionally accurate and include all of the fun little extras to make a viable commercial release, are a low priority for him. Low priority for us all actually because we already have a good working version of Cathedrae and there are MANY other projects we want to get to. That's sort of the deal. Wish we had more time, hands and money! |
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| Author: | ehisey [ 04-02-2012, 02:33 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
| Author: | mrken [ 04-02-2012, 02:36 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
Hey Denny, thanks for the heads-up that the current cathedral is not heading for extinction just yet. It really is a nice product as is, just don't have a place for it in my campaign. That could change one day and I would like the option to pick it up then. Can't justify it right now as I really need some of the kitbashes for the Thoumonts and HV Streets sets first, and there are more than a couple. You got to admit though, his conversion did catch your eye it was that good. We saw it too. Glad to have him on your staff cause I/we really like his work. I printed out most of the Friar the past few days and have been busy building my own Inn. Don't have a Robo cutter.  Thanks for the work.
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| Author: | Gamesmith Denny [ 04-02-2012, 09:42 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
The TLX conversion work he did on Cathedrae is brilliant. I hope that one day he can go back in and fix everything required to turn out a commercial release. |
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| Author: | Veskit [ 04-03-2012, 08:42 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
The problem for me is storage, I'd love to have a cathedral, but if it doesn't break down relatively flat I've got nowhere to put it. This is part of the reason I was so excited about this project even if it was stand alone (ie not compatible with the rest of the line). Here's also hoping he can revisit it in the future. |
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| Author: | Zenguy [ 04-03-2012, 12:17 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
It would be great to have it available as a kitbash for the current Cathedrae Noctis, rather than sell it as a TLX release. Can just see the by-line: Cathedrae Noctis now including modular components. (NB: this is not a TLX product.) However, if the plan is to do a full TLX version at some stage ... |
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| Author: | Gamesmith Denny [ 04-03-2012, 12:57 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
| Author: | mproteau [ 04-03-2012, 01:10 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
| Author: | CapnG [ 04-03-2012, 03:24 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
| Author: | oldschooldm [ 04-03-2012, 04:16 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
| Author: | Gamesmith Denny [ 04-03-2012, 04:29 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
| Author: | mrken [ 04-03-2012, 04:48 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I think we all pretty much all feel the same. The stuff you have been bringing out has always been top notch. Even the stuff you call not good enough anymore once was the best out there. So, I say, bring it on. Pretty much anything you guys have been doing has been awesome. I haven't bought any of the new stuff, but I am fairly heavily invested in the TLX stuff. Currently laboring over the Feisty Friar set. They are labor intensive, but so worth it when finished and being used. Yeah, we want everything done now. But we understand the time thing. All your troubles, well, we all have those. Best of luck in bringing more 3D goodness to market. |
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| Author: | Haydn [ 04-05-2012, 02:28 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
I agree with MRKEN, you all do good work, We just want the world NOW.... 
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| Author: | johndoc [ 08-08-2013, 07:26 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
I know this is a dead topic, but I'm incredibly interested with what happened with this project. I don't see much progress in WWG and I do understand why (mostly). I was wondering if there are future plans for things like this project that had so much potential or is WWG just gone? I have a game planned that I'm using TLX for and this set (though not truely TLX, but somewhat TLX compatible) would fit perfectly where ANYTHING else simply will not do. Is there any chance of getting the files in a kit-bash, add-on, or unofficial way? Sorry to respond to a topic that has been dead for over a year, but I started on Page 1 with hope and ended on Page 6 with squashed dreams leaving me in a funk. I just had to respond. I hope you understand. |
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| Author: | SpaceTrucker731 [ 08-08-2013, 07:43 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
That is exactly the point I made here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12281&start=30 It has been a topic of conversation. |
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| Author: | Zenguy [ 10-28-2014, 12:32 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
| Author: | mproteau [ 10-28-2014, 12:54 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
| Author: | wisdomknight [ 10-28-2014, 01:22 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cathedrae Noctis goes TerrainLinx (pic heavy) |
Wow, Id love to have that in any TLX form even unfinished! |
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