I have recently begun reading "Lord of the Rings" trilogy now that I have finished "The Hobbit" in preparation for tonights show and I got to wondering, why are there so few fantasy shows, if any, that are similiar (ie: Sword & Sorcery)?

To give you an idea of what I mean I compiled a list of various similiar genres (not complete by any means and feel free to add any I missed). Any real speculation on why would make for a great topic so I am starting this thread for just that purpose. I am also trying to avoid animation, movies or mini-series, I'm trying to cover mainly television serials that were to run for a season or several. I have also added a personal opinion of my view of the shows, though it is just my opinion and others may vary .

True Sword & Sorcery style Fantasy:
- Conan the Barbarian (a horrible show which died fast thankfully, he didn't even look like Conan)
- Beastmaster (though the original book written by Andre Norton was Sci-fi not Fantasy, the TV series is fantasy, and horrible to boot).
- Wizards & Warriors (almost forgot it existed, and now I remember why, yuck, a soap opera much like V)

Historical/Mythological/Horror/Other type Fantasy:
- Roar (one of the better attempts that died off quickly)
- Sinbad (disturbingly bad)
- Hercules (didn't like, except for Aeolus, I always liked his character, especially as the widow Twanky)
- Xena: Warrior Princess (up and down in my books, some episodes were enjoyable and fun, others were pretty pathetic)
- Robin of Sherwood (one of my all time favorite television fantasyish series)
- Maid Marion (comedy spoof)
- Angel (I liked it till they rushed the end and ruined it due to loss of popularity after Buffy the series ended)
- Buffy the Vampire Slayer (much like Xena, I was up and down on this one, some episodes I liked, others I didn't, favorite character was Spike).
- Beauty & the Beast (liked it when I was younger, too soap operaish for my liking now)
- Amazon (not bad but not great)
- Land of the Lost original (little seen)
- Land of the Lost recent (wasn't great, not really worth the time to watch)
- Charmed (attractive main characters, not much else)
- Gormenghast (very well done, I love that they found an albino raven)
- Chronicles of Narnia (another very well done series, though more targeted at children, still enjoyable even now though).

Mixed Multi Story series (no set characters, usually varied between Sci-fi and Fantasy):
(no real opinion on these shows as the quality of story, plotline, characters, and effects varied from episode to episode, some I would call must see and fantastic, others...what were they thinking, if they were at all)
- Ray Bradbury Theatre
- Twilight Zone (original & recent)
- Outer Limits (original & recent)
- Amazing Stories

Pure Science Fiction
- Babylon 5 (arguably the best science fiction series of all time)
- Firefly (pretty much my all time favorite)
- Star Wars (it's pretty much a guaranteed to come series so I've listed it here, expect it in 2008, fortuneatly George Lucas is not going to be the series writer, I hope that they choose someone good rather than rolling along on the money bandwagon, one can only hope)
- Starhunter (meh, not great, but not horrible, surprised it didn't die after the first season where shows like Firefly did )
- Battlestar Galactica: original (great when I was a kid, horrible to look back on)
- Battlestar Galactica: recent (has a good chance of giving Babylon 5 a run for its money as one of the best science fiction series of all time)
- Buck Rogers: original (wasn't bad for its time, in its own way a classic)
- Buck Rogers: secondary (similiar feelings as to the original Battlestar Galactica)
- Sliders (I liked it, but only because of John Rhys-Davies, lost all interest when he left the show, was flagging by then anyway)
- TekWar (um...meh, some decent special effects otherwise...)
- Andromeda (shudder, Kevin Sorbo as a Sci-fi Hercules, 'nuff said, watched it only for Lexa Doig: Rommie)
- Lost in Space (liked it as a kid, couldn't watch it now, liked the Family Guy parody more)
- Land of the Giants (liked it as a kid, could probably still enjoy it, though doubtful)
- Red Dwarf (a laugh riot, great science fiction comedy)
- Hyperdrive (almost seems to be an attempt to copy Red Dwarf, had its moments though few)
- Dark Angel (a close copy of the manga/anime character Battle Angel Alita, was worth it to see Jessica Alba, not for many other reasons, though it wasn't really bad, just not great)
- Mutant X (ugh, what garbage, I can't even watch an episode all the way through)
- Dr. Who: original (very enjoyable and inventive, though some doctors were far better than others)
- Dr. Who: recent (funny and enjoyable, a great continuation of the original series, a little weak after the first doctor leaves the show)
- Stargate (good storyline & plot, interesting characters, and overall not bad, but wasn't what I would consider great, surprised it is so popular)
- Stargate: Atlantis (in many ways better than Stargate itself, though only to a point)
- Farscape (very original, was fun to watch from beginning to end, and an interesting end it was, wasn't really great, but was good)
- Blake's 7 (seen very little though I wouldn't have minded seeing a bit more)
- X-Files (like many here in Vancouver who were some of the strongest fans, lost interest when it left B.C. due to David Duchovnys selfishness, amusingly he paid for it in time and luxury)
- Space: 1999 (hahahahahaha, was pretty stupid, only enjoyed one episode, something about plants that wiped out all animal like life forms)
- The Tripods (they did a good job and I for one enjoyed it)
- Star Cops (snicker, it was doomed from the start)
- Quantum Leap (a very interesting storyline, and had hilarious moments, but got old fast)
- V (makes me think of old soap operas, probably because most of the cast were actors and actresses from soap operas)
- Six Million Dollar Man (all I can remember is the face of the lead actor and the sound effect from his abilities )
- The Bionic Woman (see the Six Million Dollar Man)
- Flash Gordon (a classic)
- SeaQuest: DSV (was surprisingly enjoyable, though I liked it more as a teen than I do now, had great ecological concerns)
- Space: Above & Beyond (another very well done and well written series, a bit too military, but more realistic and gritty than most, wasn't surprised it was cancelled)
- Lexx (not bad, not great, if it was attempting to be serious and not a comedy I would never have watched it past the first episode)
- Charlie Jade (imaginative, but not great, again, not surprised it died)
- The Time Tunnel (enjoyable while young, couldn't watch it now)
- Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (enjoyable while young, couldn't watch it now)
- Alien Nation (the movies were pretty good, but the series was so-so)
- Earth 2 (an interesting concept, one or two good characters, weakish storyline, expected it to die off and it did)
- Star Trek: Original (bad music, bad costumes, bad sets, bad effects, but surprisingly popular and enjoyable. Spock (Leonard Nimoy) was my favorite part about this series, that and tribbles )
- Star Trek: The Next Generation (a good continuation of the original concept, Q (John De Lancie) was my favorite character)
- Star Trek: Deep Space 9 (wasn't bad, but sorta fell away from the whole Star Trek idea, got worse as it progressed, then better, then even worse again)
- Star Trek: Voyager (probably my favorite of the five series)
- Star Trek: Enterprise (wasn't bad, and a certain Vulcan made it worth watching, couldn't stand the character Tucker, stopped watching it even before it was taken off the air).
- Total Recall: 2070 (nothing like the movie, never watched more than an episode or two)

A pretty long list, but I think you get the idea. What happened to a good fantasy story that didn't rely on technology, mythology, or history to make it enjoyable. I don't think there has ever been an actual Sword & Sorcery series other than the three I listed, and they are all, um...well, crap.

Fantasy typically doesn't sell, plain and simple. Lord of the Rings was transcendant; despite being fantasy, it was a great movie. Narnia, much hyped, didn't match up. For every LoTR, you'll find 20 pieces of crap like the horrible D&D movie, or the TV Wizard of Earthsea.

It's funny, fantasy SHOULD be easy to make...no elaborate SF props, no blinky lights. LOTR floored me bacause of the obvious care and attention to detail. Why can't they do a Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser mini-series that was as good as...say...Gormenghast? Now THAT would kick butt.

Oh, and props to Robin of Sherwood. Great stuff.

Funny, in terms of Fantasy movies the 80's were a real haven.

The Sword and the Sorcerer, The awful Deathstalker, and there was a weird one from Italy called Hearts and Armour. I think I have praised them here before, although I have not seen them for many years.

Here's a quick cheesy link to Fantasy Films:



and another:

On topic, I think CapnG hit the biggest reason for most of the more epic fantasy like stories to not be made into a running TV serial, and made a very good point besides.

As I said I was not trying to include movies, mostly because unlike television series there are were many more attempts at making fantasy movies even nowadays (whether good or bad), almost as many as there are science fiction, though not so much in recent years.

A series made from the D&D worlds would have run well, even without going into the more epic sides of fantasy if it had good writers and half decent special effects, as well as characters (as pointed out before) that you could relate to.
If Conan the series had been done properly and stuck to what was originally intended from the Conan books it would have made a pretty fantastic series without delving to deeply into epic fantasy, though they would have had to make it pretty adult in nature (ie: Nudity, gore, etc...). Unfortuneatly this wouldn't have developed a large following from more than those who already like similiar fantasy. While reading the books it was also rare that you would see more than a few dozen or so soldiers engaged in battle (with the rarer exception, like when Conan was a mercenary, or in his later years as a king). There are also fewer fantastic races (though demons and monsters galore were everywhere) that would have needed to be included from show to show (ie: elves, trolls, orcs, etc...). The same could have been said of a Red Sonya series, the need for epic warfare just wasn't there, but a good storyline could have been.

It seems that noone has even bothered to try to do a good fantasy series. As I mentioned before the closest to what I'm refering to in quality, costume, acting, etc... would have been "Robin of Sherwood". They made the effort to do good work on that series and it was quite enjoyable to watch. Is it really that hard to do it again? Are there that few good writers, and directors, or actors/actresses in the world that in all of television history that a good fantasy series of this type hasn't come along? Look at all the horrible science fiction series made by comparison, yet it flourishes, and the money makers jump on every new idea that comes along, and even when they have the makings of being great (ie; Firefly, Space: Above & Beyond), they are cancelled, but at least they were tried. I would have thought by now that we would have seen something attempted, but the closest has been series like Hercules & Xena which were kept popular and running due to good writing, and comedic aspects, hell, the costumes were only so well done, and the weapons a joke, yet these series ran for awhile due to good writing.

Heck, I could count on my hands (and maybe even only one) the amount of even decent science fiction series that have been out compared to the volumes of just plain crap that is out there, yet unlike fantasy they keep trying. I suspect this is due mostly to shows and movies in the "Alien", "StarWars", and "StarTrek" genre having such big followings of fans, fans who want more of this type. Is there really such a small fan base surrounding fantasy that it doesn't get the same support? I could see it if there had been as many attempts to make fantasy series as there were to make science fiction series, but it seems there are no attempts at all, though Robby is probably right about the movie industry having alot to do with it, who knows, maybe what we have seen from the "LotR" movies will spark someones mind to do something of a similiar quality for television (though not as heavy obviously), one could only hope.

Edit: thanx for the clarification on Harry Potter btw Bighara, my bad.

I myself prefer sci-fi to fantasy due to the sheer power of the tools in use. In Star Wars they blow up whole planets. Takes gods to do that in Fantasy. So most people (ie the target market of 13-21 year old males) like big guns and scantily clad women, both deliverd by sci-fi, fantasy has big swords and scantily clad women. Doesn't compare.

My eldest prefers fantasy in wargames because of the fact you can't turn 10 squares to radio active slag. Sure a fireball will toast your marshmellows, but a savings throw will half the damage .

CCotD'

Don't know why I forgot it, though not sure whether I'd classify it as fantasy or sci-fi after the movies, but "Highlander" is an example of a decent sword series that had a good run, and didn't rely on any serious special effects or fantasy aspects to keep it going. If a series like this can have such a good run, is it really that hard for something with a more fantastical edge to be made? Though it did have groundings in modern era which made it identifiable.

Some suggestions/ideas off the top of my head that a prospective fantasy TV franchise would do well to consider:

1) Avoid the A-Team syndrome: If you're going to do swords and sorcery, there's going to be some people getting killed. You don't have to go overboard with the gore and entrails, but skewering folks with swords is messy!

2) Spend a little time thinking about the setting. There needs to be a reason for the "adventures." Are the protagonist(s) pursued by enemies? Are they mercenaries/soldiers of fortune in a world where battles and/or monsters are common? A rationale that the audience can udnerstand is very important. To use sci-fi examples, in Firefly, the crew traveled in their ship from moon to moon, trying to make a living out from under the Alliance's thumb. In Star Trek, the excuse for their adventures was exploration and in some case, military missions. In most fantasy worlds, the majority of people don't get into swordfights or slay dragons very often, so you need to explain why the main characters are different, and make sure those differences don't violate the overall premise of the setting.

3) Like a good gaming session, there needs to be at least a little action every episode. The trick is to balance it with the overall plotline and not go overboard. Too much hack n' slash will numb the audience to any excitement.

4) Magic and fantastic creatures. Hooo boy! This is a toughie. This is largely a matter of taste, so I can imposing my own here a bit, but I think that it's best to keep this sort of thing really limited. YOu want your fantasy to stay fantastic, so if every episode has outrageous amounts of spells, wizards, and magical cretures, then it will become blase. The same applies to things like elves and dwarfs. Rather than going the FOTR route and having representatives of every race in the main group, I'd keep them alien and unusual. Gritty and low magic might serve better than bigger an flashier.

5) Start the series with a particular plotline in mind. Have each episode resolve its conflict internally, but have the bigger story arc advance. Ideally, reach a conclusion or cliffhanger for the arc at the end of the season. You can sprinkle hooks throughout the episodes for future metaplots, but don't lose focus. The audience shouldn't have to wait for five years to see a major storyline resolve itself.

6) Decide at the beginning if this is a show for kids or adults, then stick to it. If it's an adult show, then things like violence, greed, death, sex, etc. can be handled one way. If it's for kids, then handle them another. But don't bounce between the two, it wreaks havoc with the tone of the show and prevents a core audience from getting drawn into it.

7) For the love of all that is decent, DO NOT MAKE YOUR VILLIAN(S) STUPID!! A smart, tough, clever villain that people love to hate will draw more ratings and interest than any number of scantily-clad priestesses or exploding dragons. A good villian punishes carelessness, seizes every advantage, and never makes the same mistake twice. A great movie villian I use as an example of this (though not fantasy) is Alan Rickman's character in the first "Die Hard" movie. ("Shoot the glass!" hee hee! Brilliant!). Heroes have the luxury of occasionally being lucky, but don't overdo it. Luck shouldn't be the reason they win, but it can occasionally make their lives easier.

8 ) Another personal preference here: Heroes should be heroes because they are tough, smart, noble, brave, skilled, or some combination of the above. Not, repeat NOT because they found a magic sword under a rock or they're "The Chosen One" foretold in a prophecy. UGH! If you want to follow the "Orphan with mysterious past" cliche, so be it. But have the kid learn as he goes, not be some prodigy or an enormously powerful sorcerer just bursting at the seams with magic from day one. I absolutely HATE stories like that. It's fine if Frodo is destined to carry the One Ring, but that didn't mean he was actually super -powerful or anything. He was just the one tapped to do the job. Granted, hobbits were supposed to be more resistant to the influence of the Ring, blah blah blah, but it nearly killed him to do it, and in the end, he couldn't manage it alone.

9) I think a project like this would actually be better served by an original concept and not adapting a previous book or concept. The problem is, novels and movies are generally self-contained story lines with conclusions. To turn that into a series of episodes tends to cheapen the original franchise and require some altering of the original material to make it viable for an ongoing story. Also, the fans of the original will never be 100% satisified with your take on the work, and you will be relying on their goodwill to generate interest in the product.

10) (Last point for now, then it's off to lunch) Give a couple of gamer/fantasy geeks consulting contracts, make them sign an NDA, and once each episode's script is finished, have them go over it and tear the continuity, etc. to shreds (and they will). Then, be willing to go back and re-write based on their notes. Any post-editing to the episode will have to be approved by them as well. This will reduce (though probably not stop) instances of fans screaming bloody murder when Zack uses his fireball spell underwater in episode #4 when he told Sir Thomas back in episode #2 that it was too wet to cast it in a rainstorm.