Ok…I want to bring up the hotly contested 1-inch VS 1.5-inch topic so that we can hammer it out once and for all. I realize that both groups are equally passionate about the formats but I have to look at the larger, long term picture. To be as clear as possible I want to break down my concerns regarding the formats in point form:

- TIME: Creating dual format model sets is taxing due to the time needed to design elements in both scales. From a design perspective this is a huge issue (as some of you now realize from the delay of CWU). It’s not simply a matter of scaling items differently; there are fundamental design challenges that come up when developing for both formats. This greatly extends the time between releases which is bad on a few levels both for you and me.

- A DYING FORMAT? I have a few industry “insiders” telling me that from what they have personally experienced the 1.5-inch format is going the way of the dinosaur. The only exception to that rule seems to be in one particular genre of the 1.5-inch format (superheroes). This puts me in an awkward position. I don’t want WorldWorks developing product for formats which will have largely disappeared in a couple years. I do have plans on developing 1.5-inch sets for modern.

- BIGGER BASES ON SOME NEW BRANDS OF MINIS: We do realize that some of the new minis coming out do have larger bases than the standard 1-inch. In some cases base size can vary dramatically so there really isn’t a “standard” base size. WE DO have plans to account for this but it does not involve jumping to a pure 1.5-inch format. Can’t say more at the moment.

So from my current perspective I’m not completely abandoning the 1.5-inch format but I will be thinking long and hard about which sets it can be logically applied to. From a purely financial perspective I can tell you that 1.5-inch sets simply don't sell as well. I’m going to leave it up to polling and you guys discussing the issues before I make any final decisions on the topic.

Well, there's really too few votes (at the time of this posting) to really see much of a statistically important trend, but it does seem that 1" is more popular. Most telling, I think, is that so far nobody has voted for the 1.5" only option.

Personally, I don't play click-games, and don't plan to. I, like many of your most likely customers, use WWG stuff for role-playing games for the most part. Because of this, I'm far more concerned with the scale in relation to standard, 25-28mm models (30mm, like Confrontation and Warmachine models look ok, too, even if doorways are a touch small for them). Because of this, I would actually prefer no gridlines, but if I have to have them, I strongly prefer 1".

Don't know what to tell you about the 1.5" format dying, other than that I have noticed that MageKnight stuff is nowhere near as popular around my area (Seattle, WA) as it was, though Wizards of the Coast's Star Wars minis seem to be picking up. By far the most popular mini-system is Warhammer and Warhammer 40K--both of which would be best with no grid, but 1" grid would be acceptable; RPG wise, d20 system is very popular (I think this is pretty much true everywhere), though I personally don't use it (I'm a die hard Savage Worlds boy now!).

You do fantastic work, Denny, and I know how much time and effort is involved in such creative production. I think you'll want to maximize your possible returns as much as possible--if this means that the 1.5" sales are (or are projected to be) 2-3 times that of 1", then from a business standpoint, that's where you should go. However, you mentioned that your sales on 1.5" aren't as good as 1", so that might be an indication of where to concentrate.

Best of luck, and I can't wait for SteamWorks.

I suppose my only reason for wanting more 1.5" stuff is because I REALLY REALLY like Chunky Dungeons. Nice large pieces that are EASY to work with. I suppose if I was given an option to upgrade to DWU (hint hint!) and it was 1" and everything ELSE was 1", I'd switch over to 1" exclusively.

I keep it quick and simple

Me - Lord Abaddon

Wargamer

Anything so long as it works and that we are given a gridless option.

RPGer

The 1" is most likely used.

So long as the new products Lix to the old I'll be happy

Hint Hint!


Lord Abaddon of Wormwood

I voted 1" because that's what I use, but I think having both options is nice. Chunky D is the only WWG set I *don't* own and the reason for that is 1.5" only.

I agree Lord A that I prefer 1" + gridless option. I don't want to leave the 1.5-ers out in the cold, but that's just what I would use. If one format goes by the wayside, I say drop 1.5"

I am moved to chime in again. I think perhaps that I am approaching my argument from the wrong direction. I think the 1.5" sets may sell less because there is only one set dedicated to them exclusively. 1" was the standard that Denny started with, there are more sets deicated to it exclusively, and there are only a few that have 1.5" in them at all. Saying that they don't sell as well is somewhat misleading. McDonald's probably doesn't sell as much chicken sandwiches as burgers.... Bad analogy.... Denny is closer to Outback in stature... Would there be an argument if Denny had started in 1.5" and later decided to support 1"? We would probably be in a similiar situation... Will I buy 1" sets, yes... Will I rescale them, no.... My time is better spent putting things together, rather than trying to re-invent what has already been done. So I guess I end up making an argument for 1" excluvisity... which I don't like... I have 1.5" stuff... it better fits my figures.... (btw, mostly Citadel stuff... no clickable stuff, no D&D minis, no confrontation....) it's easier to set up when it's bigger, easier to build the models.... it's easier to see what is going on on the board.... I just like it better, and I have a significant investment in my preferred size... I guess this argument could go on forever, but ultimately it's up to Denny.... Sucks to be the boss sometimes....

Greetings all! I prefer 1" over 1.5. But in all truth, I am using the no-grid option exclusively at this point .

Cheers,

Mark

Just to drop a comment into the discussion here...

I don't think there's any real question of dropping the 1" format...nor of eliminating the "gridless" option (the former is clearly the most common-usage format, the latter doesn't have any unique design challenges...just leaving off the grid for those floors that don't have an "inherent" grid to them such as flagstones).

The question is would you rather see the 1.5" format preserved, or see the development cycle accelerated by the need to develop to only one scale?

Argh...as much as I'd hate to have to switch all my allready built CWU over to 1" to be compatible with future releases, I suppose I could live with it. I guess that kind of leaves only Chunky Dungeons out in the cold by itself...although that is fairly self contained anyway.

No big surprise here - I voted for 1" scale.

I was startled to see how many people favored 1" over 1.5" though.

And I have also heard that 1.5" scale games are doing poorly. (Except Heroclix.) The 1" scale D&D minis on the other hand seem to be doing quite well. (Mind you, I haven't bought any - I like painting me minis, and I loathe random packaging.)

The relaunch of Mage Knight did not rekindle interest in the game. (I have plaed a few games with a friends Mage Knight figs, it was a fun beer & pretzels game (he had drinking rules for it) but had no real depth.

The Auld Grump

I'll pitch in my $.02.

I do 1", and all my sets are done in 1". Everyone I know and play with uses 1". That isn't to say there aren't any 1.5" players in town - I just don't know them, and haven't seen them at either of the 2 FLGS that I go to. Small sample, surely. But my gaming group and I won't use 1.5" sets - they don't go with anything else that we have or use, and the complications of using them far outweigh the benefits.

Even though I really like the look of it, I haven't put together anything for Chunky Dungeons, because it uses the 1.5" scale. However, I have been putting together a lot of CWU. I like the "chunkiness" (for lack of a better term) and modularity of CWU, more than the thinness of CWC, DWC and even DW:GR. My favorite pieces from DW:GR are the cryptwall and sewers, for exactly that reason. I like the solidity of the chunky builds, and the flexibiilty far more than the dungeon walls/corridors of DW:GR. Ultimately, I'd love to see that same "chunky" and modular concepts applied to 1" sets.

However, I'm not real hot on the 1.5" sets with 1" conversions. I've been using all the 1" conversions for CWU, and its worked out, well, just okay so far - its not quite up to par with the normal WWG quality (the quality of the set itself is great, its just the conversions are kind of funky). Some work really well, like the tower tops and moats, some work just okay, like wall tops and the towers themselves, and some don't work well at all or are completely lacking, like the stairs and catwalks.

In one game system it was stated that base diameter represented the area that the figure could reach, hence base-to-base contact for hand-to-hand. A one inch base fits this, while the bigger bases are there primarily for information that the figure carries around with it. I do have the Crimson Skies stuff, but have no interest in the rest, and would probably re-base the odd figure I pick up for Gaslight. As a miniatures player, I dont need a grid at all, so the 1-inch scale materials without a grid are my choice. Now, on a side note, Caveworks works well for Crimson Skies in an underground flying situation, just plan on the click base covering 4 squares, centered in the middle of them. This gives the miniatures the feel of some of the video game flying.

@thomaso827

Underground flying?

What the....!




Lord Abaddon of Wormwood

Crimson Skies is a click base game with a 1930s look sci fi aircraft and characters. Part of the game is air combat and part is combat between the characters. The whole thing seems to be based on a computer game by the same name. One of the sequences of the computer game appears to be dogfighting into or through a tunnel. The air game is a bit simplistic (according to the folks at the local hobby shop - I bought it but still havent found anyone local that will play it) but requires some skill at setting up moves, so running into a cave on sombody's tail would, first, keep the guy from zig-zagging too much, and second, would keep him in front of you, as he wouldnt have much room to try a loop or something to reverse the situation. One of the few scenarios from Wizkids is of a figure-8 dogfight/race that has to pass between two mountains, which could be represented by a short cave section anyway. Hey, anything to use these WWG products, right?

Personnelly I'm a RPGer and find the grid sizes a bit redundant with the way
that I and other GM run the fights that occur. The paper models are used to add
atmosphere and to set the scene. However for interior 'work' I have found that
the 1.5 Chunky Dungeons much easier to use than Caveworks, as there is more
room to get in and move the miniatures.

I also believe that there room for both scales. Not least as I've been using the
Chunky Dungeons set to provide walls and gates for village works! A metal
gate and wall around a large sprawling mansion is very cool looking.

A 1.5" scale for an Egyptian-Pyramid themed release would make a LOT of sense,

Unfortunately, I believe WizKids has phased out their Mage Knight Dungeon clicks game. (I haven't seen anything new for it since Pyramids, more than a year ago.)

Though there are plenty of 1" Egyptian themed material as well. (War Gods of Aegyptus comes to mind, and the GW Tomb Kings.) Might make a good expansion for Dungeon Works Ultimate.

The Auld Grump

I think the grid-work for 1" or 1.5" on the floor is the least of Denny's problems. It's easy to make those floors. It's the walls and props where we all get picky

Janx