Noticed that the Front Page of the normal http://www.worldworksgames.com/store/ hasn't been updated in quite a while.

I know that Mr. Senior is not doing anything and Denny and Chris are off in Video game land.

Is Matt working on anything?

Matt's listed as part of the team on the gallery video game.

So I don't think any new paper terrain is being worked on by WWG.

Steve

Didn't notice Matt on the list.

Oh well.

Thanks for the reply.

Denny, Chris and Matt are all fully committed on The Gallery these days, and that's the entire WWG crew these days.

What is happening is some very impressive kitbashing. In fact, we seem to have so much going on in that area and the standard is so high that it wouldn't take much for a couple of them to team up and produce the equivalent of a whole new set. If that was to happen I'd sure go into bat to get it released as an official WWG set.

We really could produce our own new set! - and that wouldn't require much more than people are doing already. The main things would be:

• A comprehensive list of pieces to make a coherent set (or add-on to an existing set)
• Kitbashing a few new pieces - so that the set is more than just a reskin of existing pieces. (There's some ktibashers who're great at doing this.)
• Textures (a combination of new textures and kitbashes of existing textures) for every piece in the set. (Again, there are some awesome texturing skills being shown.)
• Cut files. (The recent communal kitbashing of cutfiles for the Maiden shows the capability we have for doing this.)
• Test builders - to put it all together, check everything works right, and take progress pics (for the instructions) and final build pics (for the promo images). (The obvious people to do this would be the existing beta test builders.)
• Promo shots edited up with logos, disclaimers, etc. (One of the texture kitbashers would have the skills for this?)
• Instructions, using the progress pics from the test builds. (One of the people who does tutorials could put this together?)
• Promo text for the store and release posts
• Packaging it up for release

After that, it would be a case of getting it hooked into the store and hopefully also arranging appropriate recognition/reward for those who created/worked on the set.

Everything we need to produce a new set is here. We just have to get organized enough to do it!

Interesting idea, Zenguy, and one I am sure many of us have considered, although you have laid the steps out nicely. I really think, however, you should discuss with Denny first if he would go with this before the work is done.

Interesting idea ... in my case however I don't care to design in TLX.
Also, if creating original sets, as much as I would like to support WWG,
I would not do such work without pay. That is just how I look at it;
I paid for thier works afterall.

When it comes to kitbashing items from multiple sets into somethimg
else, that is more feasible. It could be a lot of fun.

Zen, there are some significant limits on the size of a kitbash.
So you might want to run this past the staff before you go too far down this road and find out that you may not be able to release your work.

That said, mega bashes would be quite appreciated right now.

Some further explanation of thinking behind this might in order:

It seems to me that, unless something disastrous happens to Denny's video games work (and none of us want that), if we want to see any more WWG sets we're probably going to have to create them ourselves.

It also seems that we have the ability to do that now, but how long this ability will remain in the face of WWG's ongoing inactivity is unknown. Hence the suggestion to see if we get on and create a full WWG quality set.

The first thing to do is prove we can create a WWG quality set - anything else is academic until we've done that.

Assuming we really can produce a set, then there are a number of options regarding what to do with it once it's been created. The obvious ones are:

1. Keep it within the group of people who created it (for copyright reasons they would each need to own a copy of any existing WWG textures/etc used within the 'set').
2. Break it apart and put it through the kitbash process as a series of separate but related kitbashes.
3. Offer the set to WWG to sell through the WWG store, in return for appropriate share of the revenue. (The more complete the set is (promo materials, etc.) the easier it will be for WWG to accept it.)

There are plenty of reasons why this might not work. But equally, there are ways it could be made to work. Personally, I don't have the kitbashing skills to even dream of making a new set myself, but some of the other obstacles (e.g. getting Denny to consider adding a community created set to the WWG store) well they're my sort of problems. That, and the fact that it would be awesome to do this just because we can.

I have no expectations about whether or not we will be successful. But the journey is likely to be lot of fun (provided we remember to keep it that way) and, you never know, it might just all work out . . .

Has anyone thought to PM the big guys about this one?

I love the idea of community projects, but also realize that there are other challenges to face, like a fear that a big project like this could get too diluted among bashers to make a profit (also could become difficult to decide how to distribute funds.

Also, as someone that has seen all walks of bashes be submitted over the last year or so, I can tell you that all bashes are not created equal and that this will take serious commitment from those involved to keep the quality high enough. I have no doubt that this is possible with various users on this forum, but also feel that it needed to be said aloud that this won't be a trivial task.

Hmm...you think so? I hope not, although if that turns out to be the case, that is pretty sad. I do wish an official statement would be made one way or the other. How about recruiting some talent to fill the void? A couple good part-timers could really do wonders here (mproteau I am looking at you and others), and incentivising them makes sense.

Or - offer the business for sale or partnership. It just seems a shame to build up a great community and exacting standards for quality products to let it sit and rot.

The 'big guys' are very busy elsewhere (Denny hasn't even opened a PM I sent him nearly a month ago). We really are on our own with this, and that underlies the thinking I outlined above.

Good help is hard to find. WWG has tried to advertise for help in the past and was not successful. I think it comes down to required skillset vs. available pay.

mproteau is a great asset around here and would make a wonderful addition to the team in my eyes, if he were to increase his ability to create textures from scratch. This is not something we have seen much of from him and I would love to see him hone that ability.

I think WWG will end up being under new management.
Nothing will be done until then.

Hey all. The best I can do here is apologize and hope that the community understands my (our) situation. The move to videogames last year was equal parts necessity and desire but ultimately it changed the life trajectories for key players at WWG in a very positive way.

There is a process underway and we are doing what we can behind the scenes to put WWG on a new path which addresses community concerns (and desires for additional content). Unfortunately I can't give you a timeline or specifics on that right now due to a host of variables outside of my control. What I can say is that we've spoken to a number of potential suitors and that we hope to have things moving forward on a new path for the new year.

This community is and will always be important to us.

Now that's the response we were really looking for.

I'm guessing it will be a while before we see new content, but it's still on the agenda which is great.

In the meantime, Kitbashes are up adn running, so go submit kitbashes !
(only one at the time, guess who )

I have a bunch of stuff available for submission, but they are all stand alone sets. Meaning that they are not kit-bashes, but actual sets. None of them have borrowed textures from any of the WWG sets. They're all modern, since I rarely play any thing else now-a-days. I've got a Grocery Store, Fire Station, Storage Units, 6 Different houses, and like 15-17 small outlet stores.(Computer shop, head shed, carry-out, Bar, Gentlemens Club, etc, etc...........

So I not sure on how to go about this? Was just going to sell them on rpgnow, but would love to keep them in a tlx format.

Yeah, that could be a problem. If they are TLX format, I'm sure that would be a violation of WWG copyright if you sold it (anywhere). Much as we would love to see new stuff, you're probably going to have to work with Denny on approval ... and have it sell here on WWG website (as they have currently stepped away from 3rd party vendors - with the exception of Paizo).

I would suggest still trying to work with Denny... the current problem is his lack of time due to his big video project.

Otherwise, for your 'sets' to be seen, shared, and sold to others (us included), you would be forced to use your textures with a non-TLX build format... at which point you would be free to use whatever 3rd party vendor you wished.

I know it's not the viewpoint you're wanting to hear, but that's very likely the brunt of it.

I wish you Good Luck!

And of course something i posted brings out the head cheese.

Would hate to see wwg sold off but if it means that the great quality continues then so be it. As long as the bar for quality is high and the new management team still uses comforting words like 'soon' without being specific, it will always feel like home.

I hope we see some or all of these through WWG. Do you have Denny's private contact info? Just thinking it may be more visible than a post here.

Head cheese - yum! I was recently turned on to it by my wife's grandparents.



If that is an option, I would hope that we see some mention of it here, as they may be one or more of us willing to buy in to keep our community going. An industry-based company may seem like a good choice, but this place has been close-knit (for as long as I have been here, at least) and I think, if it comes down to it, we should at least have the opportunity to make a move.

I'm going to be brutally honest. I love the WWG sets, I've invested some money in the WWG sets (though of course not near as much money as many folks who have been here much longer than me), and I'm kinda ticked off that there won't be more WWG sets. Or at least not likely, or at least not for a long time. I'm not so blind and self-centered that I don't understand that creative endeavours are a ton of work and it's difficult to make a living off them, so I fully understand why the creative folks from WWG have to dedicate their limited time to the projects they most enjoy and that they feel will have the best pay-off. The reason we all love WWG sets so much is because of the extremely high quality of them, which takes extremely talented designers and a ton of time, and it's hard to make a decent living with all that talent/effort vs. what people are willing to pay. I do understand.

I said I'd be honest though, and part of that is telling the truth - the whole truth. I have to say, I'm not interested in The Gallery. I don't have an Oculus Rift, and even when it goes commercial I don't want to spend the money on it. I know the game will work without Oculus Rift, but... also, by modern game standards (anything by Bethesda, Bioware, etc.) The Gallery just doesn't look that great. And though Myst was enjoyable and groundbreaking when it came out - 20 years ago! - I think that paradigm may have passed. It would really take someone with the resources and experience of Bethesda or Valve to make a game like The Gallery to the standards of current-generation games, and even then the premise might be a hard sell. But, you know... I guess you have to pursue what your passion is.

As for WWG... it's hugely about momentum. If WWG and its community loses momentum... to be blunt, it's f***ed. People will lose interest, and go away, and it's really hard - if not impossible - to get that momentum going again. So WWG needs to keep going.

I don't want an evil corporation to buy WWG. We all saw how badly Hasbro has tarnished D&D, and corporate profit motive is not going to be compatible with print-cut-play stuff; they'll buy the IP, kill off the unprofitable print-cut-play products in favour of retail products, screw those up, and then quietly kill off the brand entirely. If anyone was going to buy WWG, the only company I'd even remotely trust is Steve Jackson Games, and even they are too busy printing money with Munchkin sets to pay much attention to their RPG products.

If Denny & Co. can't keep the WWG wheel spinning, the only viable future I see is to take the whole thing and hand it over to the community, to be run by the fans for the fans in the style of something like PCGen. But Denny is hardly going to just release WWG out the window like a bird, cheerily shouting "fly, my darling! Make your own way!" Too much time and money invested to just give it away.

Maybe we can do an Indiegogo campaign or something, to raise enough money to buy WWG from Denny, and then turn it into a by-the-community, for-the-community effort. As I mentioned above, there probably just isn't enough money in print-cut-play to run this as a successful company, but perhaps there is enough love for passionate fans to run it for themselves. This will mean kit standards will go down unless we maintain an autocratic approval committee (perhaps Indiegogo backers get to vote?), or we can add voting/ratings to community kits so the best ones rise to the top. That would all take some planning; I don't have all the answers. If WWG was to be run commercially, probably the only way to do that is per-kit Kickstarters. I don't know. Feel free to agree/disagree/discuss.

So yeah... </honest-rant>

Any news on Mayhem: Industrial TLX front? If I remember correctly it was "almost ready for release" more than a year ago. Can we have any hopes here?

On the other hand I would love to see some work of Deathreaver and Jaynz released. I'm big fan of modern settings, unfortunatelly it looks like Mayhem TLX has been abandomed almost 2 years ago .


Also I can't get why WWG isn't (wasn't) using Kickstarter for their projects?
FatDragonGames went this way and it looks like they were rather succesfull.
Their most recent Kickstarter earned 32 000$ for a bundle of 4 new dungeon sets. That's 8k for single set! It doesn't look bad to get 8k per set, upfront, does it? And those sets will propably earn some more money, as long as FTG will keep them in their regular catalog.
And let's be honest, FDG stuff is nice, but its quality isn't even close to recent WWG stuff.
Their visual presentation of the actual product is also lacking, WGG always had better promo images for their set.

My personal opinio is that WWG sets would sell very well on Kickstarter, especially Swift Scenics line. It would also promote WWG older sets and company in general. It could give some extra momentum and encourage freelance designers (Bob, Paul, Thomas) to stay on board or could bring some fresh blood to the team.

It's sad that WWG didn't even try to go this route...

@canadarian I completely agree. I came here for support product for RPGs and Tabletop games. I haven't bought a video game for a console since Lego StarWars III came out, and my last purchase for my PC was Dawn of War II. I never got into Descent or any of the other "puzzle"-esque games. Even if I did, I have no time to play the games I currently have, much less get some new ones.
I also agree that stagnation is killing this site. Even these forums are shrinking to a handful of regulars who talk about everything but what WWG is doing. Nobody is really building at the moment, at least, nobody is posting pics of any real builds that aren't from terraclips. At this rate, soon even the forums will die and when Denny and friends do return, there will be only a couple Mods left to welcome them.
As to WWG becoming a fansite. I don't really see that as a viable option. KS won't really help either. KS requires results. While we have several very good bashers here, they are not pros, and don't have the time or expertise to throw at a project like that. Hell, Denny has been doing this for years and can't juggle what he's doing with this place.

If we are honest, WWG is dead. We all get happy when Denny does drop in and says "Be patient", but look at who is still around. Even people who got awarded post awards for thousands of posts have given up. Look in the gallery, the people who have built some of the most amazing builds are no longer here. Personally, I am going to give it til Christmas. This is a business after all. Surely there will be something planned for the biggest shopping day of the year. If not, I will see that as a "we are closed" sign and walk away myself. I hate to do it, I have loved this product line since I found it. But my time is just as valuable as everyone elses, and I don't like wasting it pining for old relationships that will never come back...

Cain

I do not believe The Gallery will have any connection to this site other than that the owners/designers here are working on it. I think the info we have received regarding it is more to let us know what is going on in general with their time commitments.

It would be nice to have a Xmas sale so people could get some sets before the big change over.

Just to throw my 2-cents worth into the fountain of diverging themes here:

In respect to the waiting for good RPG support stuff, there are many sets already available. Heck, though I already own most of them, I don't have the time to use them all - yet. Denny and his team have been productive over the years at a fantastic level of quality.

Are there more design styles of sets which could be developed and released? (Some of them already hinted at or 'promised'!) Would we want them? Most certainly.

Is there another "The Next Best Thing" in papercrafting scenery design systems? Probably. And it would be nice if Denny & Co. came up with it. But that's certainly something far down the road. (Special items like 'Steampunk Airship' a la "The Maiden" should be considered as a separate category.)

As for me, I can be patient. (Okay, count me as coming out of Stan Lee's "True Believer" corpe.)

Regarding the Kickstarter discussion: although KS is great in raising money for a project, what seems to be the core of the problem here is TIME for Denny and guys to work on projects. Like any Big Government thingy, just throwing money at something doesn't necessarily solve a problem.

Buying out Denny? Hmmm... That'll take a lot of head-banging thinking things through. Assuming Denny is willing to sell.

Of course, there are other options dealing with bringing other artists and their efforts into the stable... which I think is where we started in all this. Full circle. 'Nuff said. (Sorry Stan - couldn't resist!)

For those who are questioning the "Denny willing to sell issue".

Owning my own business and having acquired others, "potential suitors" means "prospective buyers". Unless in Canada they use other terms for that.

As long as the Brand doesn't die and remains the same or improved quality, I'll be happy.

Ditto that!
I think the new trajectory for WWG might be more tangible products ... just a thought.

Legally, no. It would be a trademark issue, though, if he were to use the phrase "TLX" or "TerrainLinx" anywhere on his work without permission, of course. Also, if his PDFs are recognizable as derivatives of original WWG material (same borders, layout, etc.) that would create a legal issue.

Note, I'm just talking legally here, not ethically. Ethically, if you're doing anything TLX related, please go through Denny (or WWG in general, etc.).



Or at least build them and show us pictures down the main page a bit in 'builds'... But, yes, for full-set TLX builds, anything beyond the scope of kit-bashing isn't currently being looked at - which is one reason a LOT of my work is stalled.