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WorldWorksGames :: View topic - Developers Conundrum
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Developers Conundrum
http://www.worldworksgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=727
Page 1 of 1

Author:  Gamesmith Denny [ 08-28-2004, 11:40 PM ]
Post subject:  Developers Conundrum

Developers Conundrum

Boy it’s been quiet in here lately. The ironic thing is that the silence is completely deceiving as there is some heavy work going on “behind the curtain”. So here’s a problem that's been eating away at me lately regarding that damn curtain. I want to rip it wide open! As I’m passing through the development stages of my latest model set I keep thinking “Gee, I’d really like to share with everyone here a deeper look into the development process”. I’ve got concept sketches, texture development and a plethora of tidbits that I’m sure would engage and interest everyone here but I can’t share them with you.

The unfortunate reality is that fans of WorldWorks sets aren’t the only ones looking at the work being done here. Sadly there are “other” eyes out there that may or may not be developing very similar projects and the issue of sharing ideas openly becomes susceptible. This kind of cloak & dagger back and forth is common within any industry that creates competing products but frankly I hate how restrictive it forces us to behave.

So I leave a question with all of you out there (you always have great ideas). How can I share development details with all of you without giving up the farm? How can I get you involved and excited with the development process in a way that gives you a better look at my progress but without giving up too many trade secrets? Perhaps there is no clear answer here but I thought I would leave it open for discussion.

And just to show I’m not completely paranoid here’s a little dev sketch from CastleWorks Ultimate (just a rough idea jam). Cant wait to show you the completed wall sections ;)


Author:  Count_Zero [ 08-29-2004, 07:08 AM ]
Post subject: 

If you keep working on a product at a steady pace then you should stay ahead of the competition even if you show off some of the early stuff. No one would "catch up" with you. The trick is staying on track.

Other than that I don't see a way to generate buzz on the forums. There's only so much to talk about and after some initial gushing over a new release there's not much else to say. It's like being on a road trip with a friend...after 5 or 6 hours you just run out of stuff to talk about ;)

Smaller cheap releases would keep things interesting but you're not making that policy, which I can certainly respect.

Author:  Dkarr [ 08-29-2004, 07:34 AM ]
Post subject: 

Well, maybe what you'd want to do is document your progress and thought process through the development stage. Then after the work is released to the public you can share at that time how you did it.

The behind the scenes stuff is very interesting and I'm sure people would be curious as to how some of your development is done. By releasing the "special features" section after the main release you can satisfy the curious and not give away any trade secrets.

For example a special features section on how The Maiden came about might be interesting.

Just a thought.

Author:  Count_Zero [ 08-29-2004, 08:19 AM ]
Post subject: 

Development isn't terribly interesting. What the average joe wants to see is how far along a set is that he wants. It keeps a buzz going and lets Denny show off what he's been doing.

It all comes down to what WW is and isn't paranoid about showing too early.

Author:  Sergenth [ 08-29-2004, 10:18 AM ]
Post subject: 


Author:  Gamesmith Denny [ 08-29-2004, 03:44 PM ]
Post subject: 


Author:  janx [ 08-29-2004, 06:05 PM ]
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Author:  Gamesmith Denny [ 08-29-2004, 08:19 PM ]
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Author:  Lord_Abbadon [ 08-30-2004, 01:34 AM ]
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Author:  MelEbbles [ 08-30-2004, 03:14 AM ]
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Author:  Lord_Abbadon [ 08-30-2004, 05:16 AM ]
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Author:  Lord_Abbadon [ 08-30-2004, 05:20 AM ]
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Author:  TheAuldGrump [ 08-30-2004, 06:47 AM ]
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Author:  MelEbbles [ 08-30-2004, 07:58 AM ]
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Author:  MaineCoon [ 08-30-2004, 10:25 AM ]
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Author:  MelEbbles [ 08-30-2004, 11:48 AM ]
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Author:  thomaso827 [ 08-30-2004, 12:50 PM ]
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Author:  Gamesmith Denny [ 08-30-2004, 01:08 PM ]
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Author:  Hisst_Ka [ 08-30-2004, 07:48 PM ]
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[quote="Gamesmith DennySince those doors have been permanently sealed...[/quote]

Never says never... :lol:

I have become a cardstock addict and it was another publisher who got me started. I found their quality poor. Even though their heroic scale dungeon was what I wanted, it was limited in scope and the artwork was average at best. I then got some cardstock Heroclix skyscrapers from the same publisher and felt the same way, I had a functional item but the quality was poor.

Then I found Dungeonworks on RPGNow...wow...! The set was functional, the artwork was great and the props and modular aspects of the set were awesome. I was so excited I bought Caveworks and then did something I'm not so proud of...I downloaded some other WW sets from the darker corners of the 'net. I just had to have them all!! Then I saw Denny's first post about pirating and realized their were people behind the pdfs! I immediately contacted Denny and fessed up about what I did. I then bought the items I had downloaded. I even bought more than one copy of a few. Denny was a perfect gentleman about the whole issue even though he had every reason not to be. I have been a loyal WWG supporter since then.

I then found The Derelict from Mel Ebbles. I wanted a sci-fi set and Mel's was good looking. It had great art and a great design. I began to lurk in his forums. I found Mel to be a nice guy. He responded to e-mails and was helpful and courteous. I bought the Maginot Base and a few other of Mel's models even though I have little interest in big mechs.

I've purchased many, many 2D sets from another manufacturer and used them with my WWG props. This artist does good work and was very kind when contacted.

I have purchased the sets from a more direct competitor with WWG and while I like the artwork, and some design elements, they lack in the "extras" (props, and enhancements) which leave them feeling a bit lacking.

So what does all this mean? Well, WWG puts out some great "sets" they are fully realized playsets like I use to get when I was a kid. I had my old west and dinosaur valley playsets and spent many hours with them. Denny and Paul's sets bring this feeling back to me. I get a set! An entire set! While competitors make similar products, they seem like a kit. They may look nice, and serve their purpose but they lack the excitement of the set.

I also was trying to make a point that there are some nice guys doing this. Denny, Paul & Mel are great examples of this. They should be supported! I liked Denny's stuff and found it so useful that I'v bought almost all his stuff! I liked Mel's Derelict and Maginot so much I bought a few mechs. I try to "spread the word" whenever I can.

A few sneak peeks and some designer notes would be interesting Denny, but as you and Mel have both experienced, there are people who will run with your ideas. A tease here and there...just keep those playset memories coming!

Author:  TheAuldGrump [ 08-31-2004, 06:19 AM ]
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I have to say I liked the development sketch for CWU, Sketches show that progress is being made, and may be enough without giving away everything to the competition.

The Auld Grump, who's color cartidge just ran out of ink again... mid page. (Character sheets, not World Works.)

Author:  darbymcd [ 09-01-2004, 12:48 PM ]
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Hey Denny -
I know how frustrating it can be in a small business niche. It is almost like junior high with the backstabbing and small-mindedness! God, we never really change. It is especially sad because small niches are the ones that would benefit the most from cooperation. It took me much longer to learn what you already seemed to have, just focus on what you are doing, you can't control what they are doing. So you are turning out a fantastic product at a great price and doing with one of the best, most open customer service approaches that I have seen. Ultimately it is what you do, not what the competition does that will determine your success.
Perhaps there are other things you can try to generate some traffic on the boards. Competitions are always good. Something like, build the most interesting model of 50 peices or less using parts from no fewer than 3 sets. Something kind of interesting that maybe people could talk about. Give away maybe $100 of product to the winner (this wouldn't be such a big hit as the products would end up being taken sequentially, so small chunck of each release). Or what about a section on the forun for each game with which people use WW? Then you could have perhaps best adventure designed with WW models, something that would show them in action.
Anyway, back to the dictionary to figure out how to ask for cardstock in Czech (it's never going to happen <insert forlorn look here>).

Author:  badkarma1354 [ 09-01-2004, 01:17 PM ]
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I think it would be good to have a competition to see who could make the best setup on a board that is however big or using certain sets only. Then just give away a new set as the prize :lol: . It will make people want to get invloved and it will show the amazing amount of setups you can build with your sets. Also when a set is first released you could do a contest based on that product like with castleworks:ultimate, who can make the nicest looking castle that has other sets in it. Im sure you get the idea. :idea:

Author:  typo [ 09-01-2004, 01:19 PM ]
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Mel, you raise a good point -- but then again, this site would probably wind up with a couple dozen cooks at most (for now).

I think that the best plan for Denny in trying to build up a bit of of hype and interest would be three components. First, occassional concept sketches being shown. Concepts are great for giving us a taste without letting too many cats outta the bag. It's nice to not be mystified by the product until just before launch. Secondly, photos / videos of the models released in the week or two before launch. This lets us actually see WHAT we've been waiting for. Denny did a great job with this leading up to the Maiden's release. Thirdly, Denny could keep some sort of designer's blog, letting us know A. some things he's currently intending on including in a set, B. what stage he's really at (and what snags he's hitting), and C. some general info on the actual construction of the pieces.

Even taken together, these three different views on the product will not add up to anything a competitor could use against Denny, but will give us fans a real reason to keep glancing at this page.

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