or 5mins for someone to kitbash a blank

Hello everyone, i am a new customer (i bought the first pathfinder installment from Paizo) from France (sorry for my approximative english).

I just bought Sewers and Streets, and my Craft Robo was just delivered this morning. Just 10 mins after i had already cut my first page it is really really easy with your models. Both are great products, thanks.

The big tiles does not print perfectly with european A4 standard but it is not a real problem because only the black left and right line does not print, we won't see it (it is under the tile).

Endevor,

As a A4 user myself I just trim down the area where the two black lines finish as if that last line printed - its just the joy of having the US on a different paper system. As you say this is a totally minor issue as it doesn't effect any build or visual aspect and was designed that way.


Of course - Welcome to one very enjoyable hobby. I really do hope we see your builds - large or small.



Lord Abaddon of Wormwood

Man, these sewers stink! (Oh, wait... they're sewers... they are supposed to smell like that....)

Seriously, this looks like a great set - a decent mix of floor tiles, Some very nice walls, Not many props, but the props that are present are very useful. (Railings and balconies.)

My only negative is that I wish there weren't all those skeletons lying around - I do not want all my sewers to look like charnel houses. (Only three tiles that I can think of off hand - but they are all ones that I am most likely to use more than one of in a build.

If you ever do an expansion (or somebody else does a kitbash) I would like to see some wider channels as well - something that would work for a coclea major.

I would be hard pressed to say which is better - the sewers in Gothic Realms (best part of the set!) or these. The expandability of this set makes me lean towards this one, but I like the brighter colors and 3D channels of the Gothic Realms set. The walls in this set, on the other hand, are decidedly superior.

I cannot wait for the Canals!

The Auld Grump

First off, let me just say I'm loving the two sets. And my Silhouette SD is having a blast making things easier. So kudos to WWG for continuing to create outstanding product!

I would like to chime in on some things that people have said. First off, the posts or no posts issue on the tiles. I have to agree that while the reason for the posts and their design does promote a new advance in paper modeling, it does take away from the appearance if used as 2D+ tiles.

Layers in PDFs have been around since Acrobat 5. Pending their creation (I usually set mine by exporting Photoshop layers through InDesign as PDFS) they really don't increase file size by much. And as I don't know your setup behind your PDF creation, I can't honestly say how it would affect your file sizes. But it shouldn't be big enough to cause concern.

I know of another company in the paper modeling business (forget the name offhand) that utilizes layers in PDFs to allow the user to incorporate various "dressings" to the tiles as they see fit. This allowed inclusion/exclusion of barrels, chests, etc.

As WWG is hands down the best out there in this market, I don't see why you wouldn't use this technology even if it's to create clean "postless" tiles in the future. Or, as Grump stated in his opinion above, allow him to minimize the skeletons on the tiles.

I'm not trying to offend, just looking at the product as a whole. And yes, while the design of the TerrainLinX system is exciting and really opens up avenues for new creative ideas, the lack of "postless" tiles could be a turnoff to someone who is looking for a less dramatic effect with the system.

I now leave you to get back to overworking my Silhouette.

Have a great weekend everyone!

Greg Krywusha

Hey Greg, glad you're enjoying TerrainlinX. I think if you would hear any repeated mantra from the crew here it would be this; TerrainlinX is a hyper-modular, 3-D terrain building system first and foremost. There's a massive market for 2-D tile-sets and this definitely isn't that. Sewers is by its nature a set that uses lots of walls to support upper levels and to create the classic "cramped crawl" scenarios. Streets on the other hand has a mix of anchor/anchor free tiles due to wide open expanses that don't need walls. But however you dice it, using walls is what these sets are all about (though you can certainly remove or move them as needed).

So that said, we do hear the requests and we'll be sure to include some anchor-free variants in the next Sewers booster. I guess we just want it understood what kind of product this isn't.

On the PDF layers thing; I'll look into it again. I seem to remember something about it not really reducing file-size though. So the thinking there was that we might as well just get customers to the files they need rather than forcing them to futz with layers. I think its Skeleton Key that uses layers.

This is odd because I don't seem to have this problem at all...

Yes, I have a few Skeleton Key tilesets that use layers, and I have to say that I think it's a great feature. I'll add my vote for future WWG products using layers, as it really allows the user to tweak the image in a lot of ways. It would make an already-great product even better.

Another vote for PDF layers. They can be very handy for tiles that are only slightly varied from each other. Might even be able to save on file size.

Hey Denny,

Thanks for the response! I, for one, am looking forward to building my sewer/streets set up a couple levels! Just wanted to throw out a possible option for those that might also look to utilize the sets in a way more akin to the 2.5D Dungeonlinx style (which I still enjoy to this day).

Getting in line for my purchase of Canals!

Take care,

Greg Krywusha

I would vote for using layers as well. It is so easy to just turn off the layer you don't want and then print out the tile as you'd like it to be. I'm not into skeletons, bloody gore, and the like. It'd be wonderful to be able to avoid it. I understand though that its like game dressing. So be it. Just putting in my two cents worth.

Actually Skeleton Key has only recently begun playing with layers, on maybe 3-4 of the 100+ tilesets they have out there.....the ones who have done a lot more of the layers thing iirc are 0one Games in their Battlemaps line of tile products.

I do agree with the general chorus to include them if possible, though - as some have said, it gives you the option to have clean tiles, tiles with skeletons, tiles with blood, tiles with anchor templates etc, all on a single tile.

I love this Sewer set, and I agree with Denny that 2D tiles is something altogether different. Trying to adapt this set to 2D use is bound to be frustrating.

FDG has been using layers for some time now; but it does have limitations. In a pdf, you can´t move things (chests, skeletons, etc) around, just turn them on and off. Layers are even more difficult to use in 3D sets, but they can be useful for turning off things that might be adventure specific, like the skeletons, open vs closed windows, etc.

Cheers,

I agree - I'm talking about adding optional layers to the tiles that will be the floor for my 3D setup, not using these as pure 2D tiles.



I don't think anyone is talking about adding 3D elements as layers, but I think towards the end of your paragraph above you get what I'm saying - layers would allow you to add or remove fixed position 'graphic fluff' artwork to suit your desired look.

I am finding it depends on the brand of printer and the gutters they are using for the A4. I haven't played around with the margins as I find that this is a minor issue with my HP Laser.


Lord Abaddon of Wormwood

Yes this is definitely something to look out for with modelers outside of North America. When buying a printer, check out the specs to find out what the minimum gutters are. It might be useful to start an A4 Printer Gutter List thread in the tips and tricks section.

I'll definitley give the whole layers thing a deeper look. I mean, some of my Photoshop files have like 200 layers and it would be cool to narrow it down to the useful bits for the end-user to play with. Beyond that it would be great for turning on and off anchor placement.

On the sewers no-anchor tiles thing, Matt's already got that on the booster list. So whether we can implement the layers feature in time or not, you'll get what is requested

Another vote for Layers - being able to turn off the gore and skelingtons would make me much happier.

There don't have to be a lot of layers - mostly for what I might term debris - the blood and gore, the skeletons, and the whatever it is coming out of the drain.

Sewers could use layers more than Streets, though I can see where being able to turn on things like the (absolutely beautiful) trapdoors in Streets would be good.

Mind you, this is all assuming that it is possible to retrofit Layers into either of the current Terrain Linx releases. Barring that, a kitbash of some generic blank floor to glue over the debris could also fit the bill. (Bear in mind that I am much more likely to be using these sewers for Victorian London than for the Cess Pits of Arkanos, or what have you.)

Come to think of it, I may want to start a 'What Would You Like to See in a HV Sewers Expansion', rather than try to talk you folks into doing a whole bunch of work on a set that has already been released.

The Auld Grump

Incidentally, the reason that I have had nothing to say about the walls is that they are pretty near perfect.

Most of what I would like to see would be better handled as expansions - this set is very nice.

The Auld Grump

Well a big to all of you. I suggested layered pdf's years ago and I got shot down faster than you can say "no". Reason? File size.

I am a big fan of layered pdf's. I think they are a great idea.

A couple of years makes quite a bit of difference in terms of technological advance. I think so much of the target audience has moved up from dial-up which means file size is much less of an issue.

My .02.

Sacretis

And another vote for layers.

There are a lot of possibilities to use them, not only on tiles.
Some ideas for using them on walls: switch on/of ivy and other plants, torches (WWG stuff seems to love torches ), windows/doors, posters/pictures/grafitti on walls etc.
You could even create layers for the crackles all over plastered houses, that American model designers seem to love so much.

Greetings,
Zephalo

Hey! I agreed with you back then! (In fact it is possible that I have floated the suggestion a time or two as well....)

The Auld Grump

Being able to turn on/off vines or bushes or or other stuff on walls would be a great advantage. Same with stuff on tables or trunks or stairs or ground/floors. That way you could avoid too much repetition of the small stuff if you make a large number of the same things or large floor/ground areas or a long run of walls.

Heh - I am planning out the streets and sewers for Curse of The Crimson Throne, I guess that I will be using both Streets and Sewers for fantasy after all. For Korvosa having a few skellingtons scattered around won't be all that bad.

I am not sure whether I will be running it with Pathfinder or with Fantasycraft.

The Auld Grump

With the advances of PDF technology, compression schemes, and the move beyond dial-up, it's a great time to revisit layers in PDFs. Given Denny's and WWG's talents for the artwork and textures, this would really open up opportunities and offer more possibilities to the end user. Think back on the Cathedral set. Some people thought it was too dark in design. In so much, the cathedral could be built originally as a straight-up cathedral, with layers offering the more fiendish look (blood splatters, pentagrams, etc).

Nice to hear that others are looking at Pathfinder and FantasyCraft. While I own both, I'm leaning more towards FantasyCraft. While Pathfinder is an amazing rpg, it still holds true to many of the base rulesets of 3.5 without options. I especially like FantasyCraft's point based system....particularly the magic system revamp.

Have a great holiday...

Greg K.