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*UPCOMING* TERRACLIPS UNVEILED!!!
http://www.worldworksgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8554
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Author:  Lord_Abbadon [ 07-16-2010, 05:53 PM ]
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Thraug wrote:
Some questions:
[list=a]
[*] What size is the grid? 1"? Will there be other sizes?



This is for a wargame/miniature game ∴ no grid as such.


This is just going to be the funky, very funky indeed.



Lord Abaddon of Wormwood

Author:  llyrghmnghyll [ 07-16-2010, 06:20 PM ]
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Lord_Abbadon wrote:
Thraug wrote:
Some questions:
[list=a]
[*] What size is the grid? 1"? Will there be other sizes?



This is for a wargame/miniature game ∴ no grid as such.


This is just going to be the funky, very funky indeed.



Lord Abaddon of Wormwood


except that there is clearly a grid on the pictures in front, with 36 squares per large tile and 9 squares per small tile. and with the info saying that the tiles are 6x6 and 3x3 it seems more than likely that the grid is 1"

Just showed this to another friend who collects action figs, not a gamer at all.

He said this is a gigantic leap forward. he expects to see this in your average game in 2-5 years. His wife, who is not a gamer at all, asked if this was a publicly traded company. neither are prone to exaggeration.

Author:  Zenguy [ 07-16-2010, 06:21 PM ]
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These are great 8) ... and ... Well, where's the compatibility with TerrainLinx? :?

These are clearly great products. However, without compatibility with TLX: a) the value of both lines is reduced; and b) each line competes with the other.

The two lines are so nearly identical that it would seem such a small step to allow them to interconnect in some way. Think about it from the customer's perspective: there's all this marvelous additional material that could be purchased, but it won't connect together. Right now, if I were to put TCP on a table with a TLX build the changeover will be obvious, and that will break the suspension of disbelief the high quality of WWG terrain normally gives when gaming.

Denny, please, please, please, come up with a TLX adapter (on the basis that this will be far easier to do on the PDF side) that will allow us to hook our TLX builds up to TCP in a way that looks halfway decent. :)

Author:  Halcy [ 07-16-2010, 07:50 PM ]
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Informed my boss about this, and I'm excited about picking up a set or two at GenCon.

I'll have to start talking this up to my customers and see if they have any interest.

I think some of my dungeon tiles customers who are ready to really think 3D about their terrain would jump on this!

Author:  TheAuldGrump [ 07-16-2010, 08:13 PM ]
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Qpony wrote:
I have to agree with everyone that this is a fantastic product.

That being said I am really upset that this came out. I have invested so much time, money and effort into terrainlinx that I would never have done if I had known this was coming out. To make matters worse this new system isn't even compatible with terrainlinx. The real question is whether I cut and run on all my work on terrainlinx now and just but 5 sets each of the new system or I continue my work on terrainlinx. I think I'll have to go with option 2 but I'm really upset that I wasted all this time on terrainlinx.


Denny: I believe that this new system will take off and be your new bread and butter. No one else has produced a product as high quality as this and makes terrainlinx obsolete. This stores more easily/densely, looks just as modular as terrainlinx and is beautiful. Wizards of the coast has tried to make something similar but looks bad/isn't as modular as this in comparison.


Congratulations on your success but as a customer I must admit I am very upset. I would rather have not wasted three months building something that is pretty much useless now.
I very much disagree that this makes TLX obsolete - even though I think that this is a beautiful product I feel that TLX is the superior product in terms of flexibility and value per dollar. With TLX if I want more of a given wall/tile I can just print more. :)

While I would love to see these textures for TLX I do not love them enough to buy them in the Clips format. That said, if World Works was to print a TLX compatible version of the set, not sell as a PDF, but as a pre-printed TLX set, I would almost certainly buy at least one of each set.

That is my evening star wish, a TLX printed version of this, once the Mounts become available. Not very likely, but it does keep it a tangible product.

The Auld Grump

Author:  UHF [ 07-16-2010, 08:28 PM ]
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Wow... checking my calendar... and its not April 1. When can I buy?

Author:  bensrpgpile [ 07-16-2010, 08:58 PM ]
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Holy smokes...that looks amazing! We'll be streaking from the opening Gen Con bell to your booth to stock up. We look forward to adding these beauties to the Pile. Congrats on the exciting new product line.

Ben
http://www.BensRPGPile.com

Author:  llyrghmnghyll [ 07-16-2010, 09:14 PM ]
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Went to my LGS, Owner wants to buy this as does another D&D guy there. and that was with 2 gamers in the store.

Author:  Kane [ 07-16-2010, 09:57 PM ]
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Here is something I have not seen asked yet. Are the roof pieces a single hinged piece or do they clip at the top?

Author:  Stashravens [ 07-16-2010, 10:02 PM ]
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Gotta agree with Qpony a bit here. I don't think his concern was if you were going to support both products, but that this one exists so close to the other with no real plan (or at least mention of a plan) for compatibility.

When I first got the email about this, I was extremely excited as a long time fan of your products, and a new fan to TLX. Because I thought it was pre-printed versions / clips / (most important for me) boards... I was very disappointed to see that it was in fact another product line all together.

When TLX came out, I invested in all the PDFs of your fantasy line, already had a color laser, and purchased a craftRobo Pro based on your mention in the product instructions, that makes the cutting / assembling portion of the system really sweet.

If you were selling bags of clips for that (TLX) system, I would have ordered thousands, if you were making more PDFs, I would have continued to buy. Heck - if you were simply making the floor tiles that would work with TLX I would be all about it. (I don't like making those in particular).

But I have to say - this is unfortunately where it stops for me. Unless that is - a hybrid of the two is on the horizon. I can't justify buying any more TLX as I feel your design efforts and licensing will favor the new system.

You truly are revolutionizing the table top mini game, and I do wish you the best. I think I am going to have to wait and see what this does with the industry before I dive into another product line. The sad part is - I love making the models... I don't even play anymore! But your work, and the little buildings on my shelves, kept me going.

Again, best of luck guys - keep up the great work. Every product builds on the awesome sauce a bit more than the last - you are all very talented artists and extremely creative engineers... I look forward to meeting you at GenCon!

Author:  Gamesmith Denny [ 07-16-2010, 11:34 PM ]
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While TerraClips offers the same modularity/design freedom as TLX, in practice it actually functions quite a bit differently. The two product lines can occupy the same table without offending the eyeballs but they are functionally different.

I should also note that these are not simply rereleases of previous offerings but completely redesigned and or entirley new content. We worked very hard at upping our visual game in substantial ways.

Lastly, let me reiterate that TLX remains our primary point of production focus. We have several new products in the works for that format. TerraClips is a partner product with Wyrd Miniatures to further bolster their Malifaux product lineup. Future production will always take into account the current popularity of our TLX lineup and the community which has formed around it.

Author:  Lord_Abbadon [ 07-16-2010, 11:41 PM ]
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A number of times I have read that the quality of the texturing is that level higher on the printed product - is there a dpi increase on Clips?


Lord Abaddon of Wormwood

Author:  robert4818 [ 07-17-2010, 07:11 AM ]
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2 new questions.

1. How many clips are we getting when we buy a set of extra clips?

2. Do you think you may add in Terraclips functionality to the TLX Planner, or will you put out a new planner?

Author:  Gamesmith Denny [ 07-17-2010, 07:37 AM ]
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robert4818 wrote:
2 new questions.

1. How many clips are we getting when we buy a set of extra clips?

2. Do you think you may add in Terraclips functionality to the TLX Planner, or will you put out a new planner?


Each clip pack contains 40 T-Clips, 40 L-Clips & 40 I-Clips. You'll receive one free clip pack with each individual terrain set purchase.

On the planner side; we'll have to see how things go. Its something we've discussed but its eventual roll-out would be entirely dependent on how far we can take the line.

Lord_Abbadon wrote:
A number of times I have read that the quality of the texturing is that level higher on the printed product - is there a dpi increase on Clips?


Lord Abaddon of Wormwood


The products are 300DPI. The detail boost is more of a reflection of both our texturing efforts and the technology/materials used in the manufacturing process.

John Doe wrote:
Is there a grid on these?


There is a natural 1" grid on each product. We first introduced this concept in earlier products but its basically a visually non-intrusive grid that blends in with background elements.

Author:  Nickydude [ 07-17-2010, 08:02 AM ]
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Any news on getting a preview video together to see how it all works? Pretty please? :P

Author:  Dave [ 07-17-2010, 08:05 AM ]
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As one who has long admired your products but hasn't found the time to build the first set I purchased, I'm exactly the demographic for this one. I'll break my buy-nothing-at-Gen-Con rule to snap these up immediately, and I'll probably order duplicates via the Wyrd site later.

I hope they sell bunches and you and Paizo can come to a similar licensing arrangement to broaden the line. This looks like a winner.

Author:  DeltaIce [ 07-17-2010, 08:23 AM ]
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Well, I'll continue with TLX for various reasons.

[1] can print however much I need for any build.
[2] can kitbash the sets for an incredible amount of variety within any set.
[3] can have grid options.
[4] don't have time issues, so TLX builds work for me.
[5] there is so much material available to mesh with it.

I do hope TLX continues to be supported for at least another year or two. Then if WWG can't continue with it perhaps they could liscense it to another company.


Terraclips is truly a fantastic product though. It also has a very reasonable price. I no doubt will buy the sets for gifts this year.

Author:  robert4818 [ 07-17-2010, 08:28 AM ]
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A concern.

Often when using standies that come with video games, the plastic clips tend to damage the cardboard figures.

The cardboard becomes dented, or even starts to separate as the clips are used.

is this a potential problem here?

Author:  Magius [ 07-17-2010, 08:30 AM ]
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I'll go ahead and jump in (again) to say that I'll be supporting both product lines. Even though we don't have any concrete pictures of the various pieces (yet), I'd imagine that the tabs would be fairly close, either plugging straight into the TerrainLinX slots (and leaving a slight dip between the two - which is fine between two set types, or for a sidewalk/street split). If not, then I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard to create a set that converts to the TerrainLinX tabs, with the advantage of a (near) seamless transition between the two systems.
Magius out.

Author:  R_Mortisse [ 07-17-2010, 08:50 AM ]
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(..."You guys are *INSANELY* cool.") :o

Author:  SeattleGamer [ 07-17-2010, 09:42 AM ]
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Wow is far too under-powered a word to describe this new product! :o

I've purchased many (in fact, nearly all) of the WWG pre-TLX products. But my hobby time has always been rather limited, and when it comes to playing games, or building terrain, playing tends to win out most of the time. So my actual builds have been a little ont he minimal side. I LOVE using them, but wish I had more time to build AND play.

ALso, I'm one of those who mounts everything to foamcore to make it much more rigid and flat, and that requires some major rework when it comes to interiors (or I just skip the interiors completely).

And storage of terrain became a big issue. For those who remember the old GW game Necromunda, that game had cardstock terrain with plastic clip bulkheads. I used to store all of my buildings assembled, and I had multiple sets. Boxes and boxes of terrain just for that one game. But at one point, I was forced to take everything apart.

I never got into TLX. Even more time-consuming builds did not compensate for the loss of gaming time. More time to build = less time to play.

So this product is IDEAL for me. Comes pre-printed on rigid cardboard, has clips so you can take the builds apart for much easier storage, the textures are insanely amazing, and the price-point for each set is very reasonable.

I will be buying multiples of each set, and my hobby budget is about zero dollars per month now. So it's Mac & Cheese for me for a month to afford these. And I don't even play fantasy skirmish much these days.

I can only hope these sell so well, that you have reason to venture into other genres. Scifi sets of streets and buildings and other elements would be ideal. So I will vote with my wallet on these sets, and hope that leads to future (pun intended) scifi sets.

Congrats to the entire Worldworks Games team!

Author:  Magius [ 07-17-2010, 10:13 AM ]
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robert4818 wrote:
A concern.

Often when using standies that come with video games, the plastic clips tend to damage the cardboard figures.

The cardboard becomes dented, or even starts to separate as the clips are used.

is this a potential problem here?


It's always a potential problem with this sort of thing, but looking at the preview pictures, it looks like they use a different style of clip than the standard wavy type (which holds the standees just fine, it just seems to seriously dent the board). I'd imagine that this is rather less likely to damage the board than that.
Magius out.

Author:  menace [ 07-17-2010, 11:06 AM ]
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When Denny first showed this to me, I had the same reservations that I have heard some people here express. I talked about this to Denny and he kept asking me why I liked TLX better than Terraclips. For every worry I had, he proved me wrong. Terraclips isn’t more expensive. It surely isn’t less versatile.

After some serious back and forth, I had to admit what my biggest worry about Terraclips was: It would take away the fun of cutting and gluing paper.

And that, for me, is the only difference between the 2. Terraclips is ready to play, out of the bag. Terrainlinx is more for the dedicated paper hobbyist who likes to kitbash and who likes to have things exactly the way he/she wants it. The same thing goes for the entire miniature market. There are people who just want to unpack their miniatures and play with them. And there are people who want to convert every model they own and paint it’s smallest detail. I know prepainted minis have a bad rep, but if anybody made prepainted miniatures this beautiful... I would be sold without a doubt.

As for the choice between the 2? I wouldn’t know why I would want to choose. I like to make paper buildings, so I will absoutely keep on building them. But I will just as well buy loads of terraclips sets, to fill my gaming table. On of the biggest advantages of paper terrain is that it is rather cheap. This means that at home I have 5 or 6 different sets with which I can fill a table. Why couldn’t some of them be terrainlinx and some other be terraclips? I really don’t get it.

Author:  TheAuldGrump [ 07-17-2010, 11:10 AM ]
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I think that the biggest point of the TerraClips sets is that they give WWG an in store presence - a gamer will be seeing the WWG Gears and Castle when he/she goes to a hobby shop.

The price point is much higher, but WWG's slice of the pie is much smaller, and is shared with Wyrd.

A PDF, bought through the WWG store probably brings Denny & Co. about the same amount of money, perhaps a bit higher - but is prone to piracy.

These are tangible, hard to pirate, but prone to the staff at the local FLGS not bothering to restock once it has sold. Most sales are within the first couple of months of any given product. A lot of store owners do not bother past that point.

However, if the store uses a set themselves then it can open the doors quite a bit in regards to interest. And there are stores that run games of Malifaux. In my case, I am thinking about getting some Malifaux because it has a link with WWG, sort of the other way around.... But because I have TLX it is unlikely that I will get the Clips sets.

This is something that is more likely to compete with the GW building sets, though I don't think that GW bothers with the cardstock terrain any more. (Which is a shame - I had fun with the old MacDeath scenario....)

The Auld Grump

Author:  Gamesmith Denny [ 07-17-2010, 11:39 AM ]
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The underlying drive behind bringing TerraClips to market was to introduce a terrain system that simply did not exist within the tangible brick-and-mortar marketplace. A system that is vastly more approachable to the common gaming public but not at the cost of losing the inherent fun of designing your own 3D layouts.

The bottom line is this; We obviously have high hopes that TerraClips succeeds where our previous efforts may have fallen short. With Wyrd's fantastic support and faith in the product we've been able to achieve what was previously impossible. The more successful we are, the more cool stuff we can work on to make the community at large happy.

I think that's something that everyone here can get behind.

Author:  poulpox [ 07-17-2010, 01:15 PM ]
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I think this is pure awesome, particularly the association with Wyrd, of whom Malifaux is a brilliant game which really seem to have a bright bright bright future (rules are brilliant, minis keep on improving release after release). I really like to have 3D terrain, however I tried to buy molds and make my bricks, I didn't last 2 months. Bought GW plastic scenery and 1 year later it's still unpainted. Got 2 Pdf of WW games and built only 6 houses... Terraclip seems to me the perfect end product for people like me!
I'm glad great spirits got to meet each other on an amazing ground!

Now please guys let's work on some outdoor Terraclips for Malifaux (woods, swamp shacks and all that jazz) and I'll love you forever ;)

T.

Author:  robert4818 [ 07-17-2010, 01:44 PM ]
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poulpox wrote:
I think this is pure awesome, particularly the association with Wyrd, of whom Malifaux is a brilliant game which really seem to have a bright bright bright future (rules are brilliant, minis keep on improving release after release). I really like to have 3D terrain, however I tried to buy molds and make my bricks, I didn't last 2 months. Bought GW plastic scenery and 1 year later it's still unpainted. Got 2 Pdf of WW games and built only 6 houses... Terraclip seems to me the perfect end product for people like me!
I'm glad great spirits got to meet each other on an amazing ground!

Now please guys let's work on some outdoor Terraclips for Malifaux (woods, swamp shacks and all that jazz) and I'll love you forever ;)

T.


I would say for outdoorsy stuff, you just need some specific land types. (Swamp land, grassy land, rocky land, etc.) Stuff like trees and bushes are better to just get at a hobby shop in the model train section.

Author:  Magius [ 07-17-2010, 01:57 PM ]
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Actually, I could see them making trees for this system. It wouldn't really be all that hard to do: make a cross section for the trunk/lower branches (2 trunk pieces), a layer to hold a mini on, then another cross for the upper branches. Add in a circular base to hold the tree on, and you're done.
Magius out.

Author:  poulpox [ 07-17-2010, 02:27 PM ]
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Magius wrote:
Actually, I could see them making trees for this system. It wouldn't really be all that hard to do: make a cross section for the trunk/lower branches (2 trunk pieces), a layer to hold a mini on, then another cross for the upper branches. Add in a circular base to hold the tree on, and you're done.
Magius out.


I agree, the Hinterland scenery would be a very good base to do a outdoor extension for Terraclip and having some wood ground tiles would allow to do area terrain for the game; as for the current swamp village though the idea is there but it would not fit Malifaux (the current one is more like tribal swamp and Malifaux requires a more bayou western swamp feel).

Author:  Qpony [ 07-17-2010, 04:41 PM ]
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I feel like I should clarify my earlier post: I am operating under the assumption that terrain clips will take off and be extremely successful. Based on the price point (which I believe is not too high to push hobbyists away) is why I believe it will be successful. Considering the fixed and variable costs of building terrainlinx products I don't see terrain clips being much more expensive. In fact depending on if you factor in time costs terrain clips will be VASTLY cheaper.

Put it another way: Let's say I bought (and I should say I did)

3 PDFs of sets for $52
A Silhouette SD for $300
2 replacement blades for $20
6 250 110lb cardstock reams for $60
10 pieces of black foamcore for $80
1 craft knife for $7
2 replacement blades for $14
1 cutting board for $10
1 continuous ink system for my printer for $80

I've now spent $613. I could buy three of each of the terrain clip sets and three of a new set that would come out for the same price.

Now I know the large costs above are fixed costs but keep this in mind: if I was buying three of each of the terrain clips sets that means you are getting:

126 Double sided 6x6 inch floor tiles
252 Double sided 3x3 inch floor tiles
216 6" walls
216 3" walls
210 double sided roof pieces
27 single width stairs
9 double width stairs
27 ladders
264 hand rail sections
216 balconies
210 roofs

This means you will have to print out 1437 pages of 110lb carstock and have the robo cutter chew through all those pages. This is also assuming that you are not buying the terrainlinx floors. Keep in mind that you still have to edge, glue and cut out foamcore for all the above pieces which take A LOT of time (I wouldn't see myself doing it before six months assuming an hour a day).

I'd like to point out that the above paper costs are estimates but are pretty accurate (roofs might be a little more pages then I estimated).

I know there's a lot of numbers but my point is this: if you are starting from scratch there is no reason to buy terrain linx over terrain clips unless you really like cutting it out yourself. And if you've already invested a lot of time in terrainlinx it seems to me like wasted time because TerrainLinx and Terrain Clips are incompatible. I think regular consumers who just want terrain to play with would buy terrain clips, making Terrain clips World Works Games bread and butter moving forward.

Link to my work above:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25688/Terrainlinx%20paper%20costs.xls or
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25688/Terrainlinx%20paper%20costs.xlsx

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