Hey WWG folks!

I was looking at the AWESOME floor tiles in the Shellendrak west wing set, and I was going to do a speed build of a large open "ballroom" kind of area by creating a large supertile. However, that's when I noticed that there are no anchorless versions of the tiles, which means that I would have to cut out anchors to cover up all the white "glue icon" rectancles, which sort of defeats the purpose of a "speed" build. For the build I'm trying to make, I don't need the achors, and with time being of the essence, it made me wonder why anchorless versions were not included.

I realize that its probably a fairly easy kitbash, however my version of Paint Shop Pro will not open the WWG pdf files, and my attempts to edit files in GIMP always produce results that don't print out the correct size.

Is there any chance that anchorless versions of the floor tiles for your sets could be made available? Or is there a reason that I'm not aware of for them not being included in the first place?

Just wondering. Thanks in advance for any responses.

I second this request.

3rd

could you do an easier Physical kit bash?

I am not 100% sure which floor you are refering to, but could you print out an extra floor tile and just cut out a section of floor to cover over anchor spots.

By this i mean if you are using the 1 inch or 1.5 inch gridded ones, just print out an extra floor, and cut out a few squares and just plop the whole square (in it's proper place) over the tab spots?

If I had Shellendrak west wing I could probably kitbash those for you but sadly I don't, sorry. May be some time in the future.

Yes, I did consider this option (and still am, really) but in the end it adds up to quite a bit of ink being wasted from the bits that have to be printed but not used. It just seems like offering an anchorless version (like they do with some of the SOH tiles) would be the quickest, easiest, and less wasteful (read: costly) way of accomplishing this.

Still, I appreciate the suggestion, Ghenghis_Ska, and I thank you.

Also, Nicky Dude, though I appreciate the sentiment, I am quite certain WWG does not approve of people creating kitbashes (even small and well-intentioned ones!) and trading them amongst themselves; and even if you were speaking of actually submitting a kitbash, the turnaround time from submission to when it is made available is...well, not a small length of time, unfortunately. Generally, by the time someone recognizes a need for their build, it is not reasonable within the current system to expect that someone would be able to kitbash it, submit it, have it approved, and released for dowload in a timely enough manner that it could still be used when it was intended.

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

EDIT: Well, I kitbashed it in gimp, saved it as a jpeg, and of course the scale was wrong (too small). I had to tell my printer to print it out at 109%. Then, as I was looking at the printout, I noticed something that needed fixing, so I opened it back up, fixed it, saved it, and printed it again, and this time at 109% it was TOO BIG. Argh!!! So I printed it again at normal size, and this time it printed at the correct scale. With no modifications. I...don't get it. I have no idea why GIMP does this, and further, why sometimes it just seems to fix itself and at other times it is a persistant problem.

The GOOD news, however, is now I have a jpeg version of what I want that seems to print out at the correct size. I just wish I knew how I *did*it. lol

Hey Denny!

Another thought. I do recall that you have addressed the issue of layered pdfs before, and were not overly fond of the idea. However, the context of these discussions has been, to my knowledge, about adding customizeable options (such as door, no door, dirty, clean, etc.)

But how about if on the floor tiles -- and *only* the floor tiles -- you were to put the little white "glue here" rectangles on a separate layer? I'm not talking about adding any new features or creating any new art, just a simple toggle on/off for the white glue rectanges.

I'm also not suggesting that you go back and "redo" all the old tiles to accomodate this. I realize that's not feasible due to your current workload and the sheer number of tiles that already exist. But would you consider this as an option for future releases?

There have been major recent efforts to revise our workflow (the past few months), streamlining production overall. The changes we've been making will ensure that all future releases have absolute continuity and that every set includes standardized formatting & components. You'll see some fairly major production changes in the near future.

Layered PDF's are not off the table. More likely if we use it, it will be for organizing format concerns like the ones you've raised here. We've also been researching other options for handling layering in a way that works with our production process (doesn't slow us down). We also have to ensure that whatever we do, we're not excluding users with older computers or software platforms. PDF layering can play absolute havoc with older systems, rendering the PDF's almost unusable.

I also belive that terralinx should have the tiles with and without the anchors - or the layer... I like the tiles but for now not able to do full builds... And having to cut and paste archors to not see the blank spots is toooo time for me !

So +1 to it !

Thanks for the reply, Denny! I know you guys have been working really hard at streamlining everything, and I'm looking forward to seeing what changes are coming down the pipeline! Thanks a bunch, and keep up the good work!

How's this for a solution:
Surely, Denny and gang, you have what would have been the *original* basic tile before the "glue here" bits were added. Why not just make the original available as a free download for all who already have that set (consider it a 'company kitbash')? Or, using that original as a 'free sample' for everyone?
And for future sets, include the base tile in the set along with the "glue here" version.
[This would be similar to what you have done with the "Streets of Himmerveil" floortile set (in part at least).]

Okay, not to sound too much like a jerk here, but... is this really that much of an issue for the other sets? I've got Armory and it took all of about 20 seconds to copy-paste out those bits using Photoshop (which is overkill, anything else could do it). 300dpi with the tiles being exactly 1" in size... I'm struggling to see how much of a problem this is.

Sure, there's no reason for WorldWorks not to include a 'anchorless' version of floors in the future, but I'm having a hard time seeing the difficulty in just editing them out. Am I missing something?

The problem is that not everyone has access to an image editing program that allows the opening of PDF files.
And even with such an access, it seems that half the time, the opening process just screw up the proportions, leading to square tiles that are not totally square (I did have that problem once, and I do use photoshop elements, but I suspect a printer problem in my case).

Just my 2 cents...

I'd buy the argument that a lot of people just aren't familiar with how to do it, so it's not nearly as quick and painless as some would like. But, here's my system that seems to work well, using only free software. I'll post my basic steps here in case someone lurking isn't familiar with the process, and if someone's interested, I can write up really detailed walk-throughs with images and stuff.

1a) Get GIMP. I've used it both on my Mac and PC for doing this.
1b) Get OpenOffice. I've used it both on my Mac and PC for doing this.
2) In GIMP, open the PDF. During the open process, it will ask which pages of the PDF you want to open, and each page will become a layer in the new image. Very important - when opening the PDF, you need to tell GIMP that the image resolution is 300 pixels/inch, not the default 100 pixels/inch. The page size should be 2250x3300 pixels. If all you're looking to do is cover up the corners of the tiles, you might want to do one page at a time, rather than deal with a bunch of layers - it'll keep your files smaller, and be less confusing for you if you're not familiar with the image editing process. When you import, if it asks you about RGB color somethingorother, I just click OK...
3) Now you can tweak the layer(s). When you're done, save each layer out to a jpg file. GIMP will ask some questions - it might tell you it wants to flatten the visible layers, which is a-ok to do - just make sure you have the layers visible in a way that looks right. It'll ask about quality. I typically save it out to 100% quality.
4) With the image saved, the next step is to create a new Drawing file in OpenOffice.
5) Insert your new image onto a slide. Right-click on the image, and select Original Size. Now line it up with the corner of the slide edge - it SHOULD fill the entire page (assuming OpenOffice has set you up with an 8.5x11" page).
6) You can print from here, or you can set up a bunch of slides with each of your modified images, and export it to a PDF file.
7) To make the PDF file, File > Export as PDF...
8) It'll prompt you for all sorts of options. Make sure to select, under Images, JPEG compression. I set mine to 90% quality. Reduce resolution is OFF. I think all the other general options are OFF.

Anyway, that whole process doesn't take too long once you've done it a time or two. It seems like a lot, but it really isn't. And, once you're fluent in that process, you can quickly package up kitbashes too!

I'm being told to get off the computer and get ready for work now, so I admit I haven't checked whether there's a good tutorial in the kitbash section. If there isn't already, I'll whip up my own process and put it in there for future generations.

QFT.

In fact, this is actual far more complex than you'd realize for people who've never used graphics software before.

But firstly, thanks, mproteau, for posting instructions on how to do this. Hope you don't mind me using your draft instructions to illustrate the scale of the problem.

Just look at the size and nature of the following instructions:
This isn't a simple eight step process!
All but one (#7) of these instructions involve multiple, often complex steps or decisions, many of which are based on concepts non-graphics users will not understand. Even seemingly innocent instructions (e.g. "Insert your new image onto a slide.") will baffle people unfamiliar with these sort of tools.

I know these things become automatic once you're familiar with them.
But I think we'd be on safer ground assuming that a) most of WWG's customers don't know how to do this already, b) graphics software has a learning hurdle new users have to cross before it becomes easy to use.

mproteau, can we take you up on your (very generous) offer to create a full tutorial? 'cause we're going to need it. - thanks

Thanks for the basics! I am sure this will help many.

I think I slightly disagree with Zenguy, however. The only step that should cause the majority of noobs issues is step 3, tweaking the image, because you actually have to know what and how to use the available tools.

Thanks for the basics! I am sure this will help many.

I think I slightly disagree with Zenguy, however. The only step that should cause the majority of noobs issues is step 3, tweaking the image, because you actually have to know what and how to use the available tools.

Granted - that step is a BIG one!

If you've never done it before, it's daunting for sure. I'll try to work something up this weekend that walks through each step without leaving things out. But for sure, I think I captured the gotchas - the importing of the pdf, and the exporting of the pdf. When I did things correctly and the new image fit perfectly on a slide in OpenOffice, I knew I was on the right track!

First...nah, you don't sound like a jerk. I think you're asking questions that seem reasonable from an experienced photoshop user's point of view. I have *some* graphic editing skills (evidenced by my *eventual* sucess documented earlier in this thread), but am far from being some kind of expert.

The problem, as I mentioned (but perhaps not clearly enough, my fault) is that both graphics programs I had access to had differing problems. Paint Shop Pro would not even open the files, and GIMP has a strange habit (I *thought* I had seen it mentioned as a documented bug somewhere, but I could be mistaken) of changing the scale after I open and alter files so that when I print them out they are bigger than they should be. Its possible (hell, I suppose "likely" is a better word...) that I was doing something wrong that was causing this error, but it was still an error that caused a not-insignificant amount of wasted time and ink.



Only that since, as you yourself mentioned, there really *isn't* a reason for WWG not to include anchorless versions of tiles (well, that I *know* of...I suppose I shouldn't assume), it would be cool if they *were* included. Like, puppies and kittens and rainbows and unicorns kind of cool. And also, as I've documented, clearly I *did* have difficulties editing them out, lol.

Since this is the interwebz and words can often be misinterpreted, I want to state for the record that I'm not trying to be in the least bit snarky here. You asked a valid question, and I am trying to answer it. I suppose my main point is that if you assume something to be idiot-proof, someone will build a better idiot to muck things up. I was going for the title.

@ mproteau:
Holy crap, thank you for that walk-through. I have both Gimp *and* Open Office, so I will be sure to try these steps out. Hopefully they will illuminate what I've been doing wrong that is causing my scaling issue (its not in my printer settings; scaling is set to "off"). This is why I love coming to these forums. People are so willing to help others out.

This community rocks.

There are a whole range of reasons for having anchorless tiles in TLX.
When it comes down to it, the anchors are only needed wherever you are going to put uprights of some sort. In some settings, the upright density might meet (or occasionally even exceed!) the density provided on the current standard tile. But there are lots of other situations where the unnecessary anchors are more of nuisance than a benefit.

My ideal would be to have subtle anchor points (along the lines of the 'organic grid' concept that works so well in TLX and TCP). That way each tile could be used with as many, or as few, anchors as desired at the time. One tile design; no pdf layers required; less effort to 'first use' (suit a wider range of customers); and all showcasing more of the WWG team's awesome design skills - Pure Win (well in my mind anyway)!

Now that is an awesome idea. I love it!

IIRC, that was not a great solution due to gluing over ink/toner and that causing problems. I remember reading it somewhere from someone (maybe LD?) that tested it themselves.

@mproteau: thank you for the steplist. I'm still learning the ins and outs of GIMP. I haven't even begun to understnad how to work the alpha channel to make an overlay. I'm hoping this helps me whne I can find the time to get back to studying and working the process... now just have to grab that other program, too...

Did you have a look at the kitbash section where I tried to be more detailed about how to get started? If I can clarify anything, I'll try to fill in the gaps!

+1 for Zenguys's suggestion of 'organic' gluepoints.

I just bought Mayhem Destroyed, and was disappointed to see that (unlike Himmelveil) it does not come with anchorless versions of the floor PDFs.

I know it is TLX and the anchors are a key part of that system, but I had assumed (my fault, I know) that because Himmelveil did it that way all TLX systems would do it that way.

I will see what I can bash together in GIMP - thanks to mproteau for the guide.