No go for me too, I use 3/16th and it works and looks fine...see no need to change horse in the middle of this trek
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| Should the TLX be based on 3/16" rather than 1/4" http://www.worldworksgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=9846 |
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| Author: | Zenguy [ 06-19-2011, 02:09 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Should the TLX be based on 3/16" rather than 1/4" |
To avoid any possible confusion, this is NOT an official WWG poll. This is a purely personal survey and is nothing to do with my role as moderator on these forums. (FYI, I'm not aware of any plans by Denny/WWG to alter TLX.) - Zenguy TLX tiles are designed for use with 1/4" (6mm) foamcore. Yet very few (if any) people use 1/4" foamcore when building TLX. Instead, people (including the WWG team themselves) seem to use 3/16" (5mm) foamcore, because it is: - much more affordable - commonly available (1/4" (6mm) foamcore is hard to find or unavailable in many areas) - perfectly good for the task The resulting 25% difference between the thickness of the foamcore and the TLX tile design height: - Confuses people new to building TLX tiles - Creates less robust tiles than if using 1/4" foamcore - Can result in unexpected variation in TLX constructions due to the 1/16" design 'slack' (c.f. WWG's normally impeccable design standards) Which leads to the question: Would TLX be better, for the bulk of customers, if it was optimized for 3/16" (5mm) foamcore? (FYI, changing to 3/16" tile design need not affect walls and normal height posts, but would require tweaks to existing tiles, double height posts, and possibly roof pieces.) |
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| Author: | Akmor [ 06-19-2011, 02:31 AM ] |
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I personaly don't care because... I use 3mm foamcore... Because I can have big sheets of 3mm very cheaply. So I do already cheat with templates |
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| Author: | DougT [ 06-19-2011, 04:14 AM ] |
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Perhaps the wording should be more like TLX should be optimized for 3/16" / 5mm because it is more readily available at a more resonable price for the majority of people who spend their money to support WWG. |
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| Author: | sunraven01 [ 06-19-2011, 06:42 AM ] |
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Seriously, this again? THE SYSTEM WORKS AS DESIGNED. |
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| Author: | Matthew777 [ 06-19-2011, 08:29 AM ] |
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Sure, I would prefer if it was based on 3/16, but I don't really care that much. |
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| Author: | Talae [ 06-19-2011, 10:52 AM ] |
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| Author: | Solospirit [ 06-19-2011, 11:21 AM ] |
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No go for me too, I use 3/16th and it works and looks fine...see no need to change horse in the middle of this trek
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| Author: | Falhurk [ 06-19-2011, 11:59 AM ] |
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Although the system works as-is. I'd think that having the smaller foamcore as an option would be great. Mind you the work involved in making this happens leads me to believe it won't. |
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| Author: | zorg [ 06-19-2011, 12:40 PM ] |
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| Author: | emergencyoverride [ 06-19-2011, 08:29 PM ] |
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| Author: | tatteredking [ 06-20-2011, 03:09 AM ] |
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| Author: | Sacretis [ 06-20-2011, 08:40 AM ] |
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| Author: | Zenguy [ 06-20-2011, 12:53 PM ] |
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| Author: | Talae [ 06-20-2011, 01:10 PM ] |
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| Author: | Akmor [ 06-20-2011, 10:36 PM ] |
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| Author: | Zenguy [ 06-21-2011, 04:17 PM ] |
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Current poll results: - 4% (1 person) using 1/4" foamcore but happy to switch to 3/16" standard - 45% prefer the current standard - 29% prefer switching to 3/16" standard - 20% don't care As at date of posting: The sole 1/4" foamcore user being happy to switch to 3/16" standard  Less that 50% voting to stay with the current standard.
And on a forum where people are likely to have investments in the current TLX tiles - Who'd have picked that? Maybe there is some reason for having this discussion after all. When this was first debated no one knew what proportion of customers would use 3/16" vs 1/4" foamcore. That made it inevitable that TLX would compromise on supporting both thicknesses. (For the nay sayers: If it wasn't a compromise, why was there so much debate at the time?). Now it appears the large majority of customers use 3/16" foamcore and very few use 1/4" foamcore. If TLX was starting now, what;s the likelihood it would support 3/16" foamcore only. NB: This isn't about finding fault with TLX - TLX is great. This is about whether it is possible to improve TLX, what would be involved in doing that, and whether the result would be worth it. So, an invitation to all those who've been dissing this discussion: Thank you, we've heard your opinions about whether this is a suitable discussion for this forum. Now, we'd love it if you could look beyond that and provide some constructive input to this discussion: 1. Would TLX be better if it explicitly catered for 3/16" foamcore? 1a. For existing customers? 1b. For new customers? 2. What would be required to successfully make that change? 3. What are the pros and cons of doing so? |
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| Author: | sdavies2720 [ 06-21-2011, 05:35 PM ] |
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| Author: | mproteau [ 06-21-2011, 05:47 PM ] |
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| Author: | emergencyoverride [ 06-21-2011, 07:21 PM ] |
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| Author: | Zenguy [ 06-22-2011, 08:29 PM ] |
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You're right, you do have to be very careful interpreting surveys and statements. Hence the careful accuracy of the statement: "less than 50% voting to stay with the current standard." It will help, of course, when we get more votes and therefore a bigger sample size. (FYI, since that summary, the only addition to the voting so far has been for the 3/16" standard!) As for the pro's of the 3/16" standard, you just have to look at the con's of the 1/4" standard when using 3/16" foamcore, which are that tile construction is a) sloppy, and b) confusing. (C.f. WWG's normal quality, where if you print/cut/score correctly then pieces will line up exactly.) |
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| Author: | Zenguy [ 06-22-2011, 08:30 PM ] |
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| Author: | emergencyoverride [ 06-22-2011, 11:48 PM ] |
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I'll see if I can put together a video showing how I do it. Its not sloppy looking at all. As I don't see them changing anything in the formatting for reasons they have already given us in earlier posts, I really do hope you find a way to build your TLX sets that will allow you to enjoy the experience as much as I do. I love building the pieces and then using them for games and displays. Its a ton of fun and I understand how something being off can take away from that experience. On whether TLX needs to change or if it is fine as is, we'll just have to agree to disagree, which is really no problem. Different people look at things differently and prefer to do things in different ways. That's what makes this a great community. 
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| Author: | ClausLars [ 06-23-2011, 05:10 AM ] |
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| Author: | Zenguy [ 06-23-2011, 11:58 AM ] |
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| Author: | ClausLars [ 06-23-2011, 09:06 PM ] |
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| Author: | CapnG [ 06-23-2011, 11:04 PM ] |
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Hey guys, I just thought I'd chime in and make a couple of points regarding why the 1/4" borders exist from a design perspective. #1: Ease of use. 1/4 is simply an easier number to design around that 3/16. 4 x 1/4 = 1 4 x 3/16 = 3/4 It gets messy. #2: Retro compatibility. 3/16" foamcore will still work in a system designed for 1/4" flaps, you just have to tuck them in a little. The reverse is not true (3/16" flaps on 1/4" foamcore). This would mean anyone who can only get 1/4" foamcore would be out of luck. That said, even though I notice that the plurality of this poll is either fine with the system as is or doesn't care either way (16 out of 26 votes at this time) you should also be aware that we have no plans to change the system anytime soon. |
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| Author: | Grindar [ 07-11-2011, 11:38 AM ] |
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Well, here's a couple thoughts: What would the differences be in the files? an adjusted cutting template, trim down the edges of each tile, and adjust the double post in the set if it's present (or post to post adapter, however it's done). Or am I missing something stupid? Maybe I haven't been looking close enough, but the tiles I've looked at the edges on have fairly generic textures, should be easy just to chop off 1/16" on them. You're making this sound a lot harder than it seems? So when the new website goes up, maybe make it a checkout option if you want 1/4" or 3/16"? Or include both? I'm sure with an adapted standard tlx page, a couple of the kitbashers around here could crank out the older sets "new" tiles, maybe in exchange for store credit? maybe sell them as kitbash modules instead of with the whole package? I've done some tiles on 3/16 myself, and while they work, they just don't seem right...especially feels fiddly on multilayer builds. I'd love to give dedicated 3/16" tiles a try. |
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| Author: | Gamesmith Denny [ 07-11-2011, 10:40 PM ] |
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I'll just reflect what Matt said; there are no plans to change the current standard and there are no plans to reverse engineer older offerings to native 3/16". The system simply works as advertised (I know how Joe Corporate that sounds but it's true). We've covered all of this before in detail. 1/4" was chosen because it works for both 1/4" & 3/16" and that gives people options when at their local craft stores, where supply can vary dramatically. All staff designers use 3/16" foamcore without issue and a gross majority of customers simply don't have issue with 3/16" tiles using 1/4" thick templates. If the reverse were true my inbox and Aubrey's inbox would be flooded with 2 years of daily complaints and they simply aren't. Its just not a groundshed issue to warrant a massive redesign/retrofit down to native 3/16" thicknesses. All of that said, perhaps there is more we can do to engage the community to help those who are experiencing build issues. Additional videos, photos, tips. We'll do whatever we can to get everyone up to speed. |
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| Author: | Falhurk [ 07-11-2011, 11:52 PM ] |
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Hmm, perhaps for future floor tiles could we just have inconspicuous markers where one would need to score the line to fit 3/16th's better? It's not a massive overhaul, even just a couple of guidelines would solve the issue for floor tiles. |
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| Author: | Grindar [ 07-12-2011, 10:09 AM ] |
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It's not that I can't do it, it was actually intuitive if you can force yourself to keep edge at 90 degrees, because that's the only way to glue down the tabs is with the concave shape. But that shape makes it not sit quite flush if you're off a little in setting on the upper stories of a build...I guess I'm a bit OCD. It's weird if you just do the tight-wrap or score as you suggest falhurk...you get a bit of overlap in the corner and either have to trim the linx tab hole covers or stick them permanently in the up position. Even lacking official WWG support, Denny, if people submitted "kitbashes" of the 3/16" tiles, would you guys sell them on the website? Or is it just a no-go? |
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