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| Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? http://www.worldworksgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=10506 |
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| Author: | AJB2K3 [ 11-08-2011, 12:01 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
It's all well and good having an app closing app but how do you tell which of the 20+rundll32 processes will I have to close just to stop the one misbehaving app that uses rundll32? Hardwhere (unless its top market) will never cope with the usuall load most of us put on it! win8 is for those noobie smartphone type people who know jack about how it works as long as the can search the web, twatter or use facebook. |
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| Author: | joydyhee [ 11-08-2011, 12:44 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
| Author: | lewisc [ 11-09-2011, 11:54 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
As a developer I am tenatively hopeful that the WinRT will be done right(fingers cross MS doesn't get on their high horse over POSIX compliance...AGAIN!), and will be a reasonable replacement to MSCorlib(which is decrepit...). Given the last time they tried this everything broke(this is the successor to the original Longhorn, it got stripped out after vista got uber delayed), I suspect it will be awful. But optimism springs eternal, no? As a user I am not looking forward to having to relearn how to use the damn interface. Again. As a user I am praying to the Machine God that they FREAKING FIX VISUAL STUDIO...goddamn that thing is obnoxious at times(the debugger needs to be completely reworked, the entire engine needs to run in 64 bit mode for actual testing, the editor needs to quit locking up and intellisense needs to quit being...whatever it isn't supposed to be). I also don't think the hardware requirements will go up. If anything I suspect they will go down slightly(that is the official word, and the last time they jacked up the hardware requirements everything broke, so that lesson they seem to have learned...) Also, targeting facebook, twitter and por-er..."internet usage" seems to be the way to go, as that is a large use case model for modern processing. |
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| Author: | TheAuldGrump [ 06-08-2012, 02:24 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
A recent referred to navigation in Windows 8 as 'Mystery Meat navigation' - you don't always know what you are going to get. The folks at Microsoft are already extending the life of Windows 7 support, not everyone at MS is convinced that this brick, I mean bird will fly. No, sorry, I was right the first time - it's a brick. Bricks and windows are not a good combination.  The Auld Grump |
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| Author: | Ninevah [ 06-08-2012, 02:46 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
What really shocked me was that they've released a preview of their new Windows 2012 server and it will have the "Metro" UI on it, too. What idiots. What system administrator is going to want to waste time with that crappy UI that only works well on tablets? |
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| Author: | ehisey [ 06-09-2012, 08:01 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
| Author: | TheAuldGrump [ 06-09-2012, 06:10 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
That sounds very handy for something that I will never need or want to do. I am not sure that there is any need for that feature.... The Auld Grump |
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| Author: | Haydn [ 06-10-2012, 04:17 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
Tested windows 8 YUKKKKKKKKKK. Now using Linux Mint. Beauty. even my WWG files print out nicely with my brother laser printer in Linux Mint and wine for the cutter |
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| Author: | TheAuldGrump [ 07-26-2012, 07:56 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
Valve/Steam has voiced their opinion of the move to Windows 8 - . The Auld Grump |
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| Author: | Talae [ 07-26-2012, 08:52 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
I saw that yesterday and laughed. My first thought was "Gabe went to a Con?" lol |
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| Author: | T-G [ 07-28-2012, 06:13 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
In a typical work day I have open and am using Firefox, Excel, Word, Outlook, and take and make most of my calls in Skype. I'd be a little put out if Win 8 closed Skype while I was working in Word/Excel and I didn't receive any calls... I think my boss would be a bit put out as well. |
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| Author: | TheAuldGrump [ 04-10-2013, 11:48 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
Well, Windows 8 has helped fuel a 14% drop in PC sales.... Many of the things mentioned in this thread have been cited as reasons - folks don't want/need touch screen, folks do want the start menu, and do not like the ribbon. And Microsoft announcing that Windows 9 would also use that ribbon... has fueled further dissatisfaction. Hurrah for Windows 8.... The Auld Grump |
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| Author: | Bedwyr [ 04-11-2013, 08:12 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
I'm going to be controversial and say that the Ribbon is objectively better design than the old menuing system. That system "File Edit View" is a travesty of hidden function that should never have gotten the foothold it did. It sucks and it sucks that people are used to its function. The only thing going in its favor is that UI design is faster because you can hook up functions to cascading menus. Everything else is a hindrance to functionality. The ribbon isn't awesome design, but it does a much better job of exposing functions to users. It requires about 1/3 fewer mouse-clicks to get to particular functions and throws more powerful functions towards the front without cluttering the screen in a volatile temporary menu cascade. Again, this is objective. I'm not even talking about preference for aesthetics or dealing with changes to what you're used to or are trained on. Regarding the Windows 8 thing. It's a mess and they blew it. The UI is a good design, but they screwed up by marrying PC functionality to tablet functionality in baffling ways. What they should have been doing is getting the tablet OS out the door alongside a desktop focused OS (same kernel) and iterating the way Apple has been slowly growing MacOS and iOS together. Even then there's a limit. The trick is in how you design documents and programs to work effectively between two devices for two separate purposes. And they blew it. That said, I use Windows 8 and have absolutely no problem with it. I use the start screen the way I use the start menu and type-to-search the same way I did Windows 7. It works nearly the same way. I simply ignore most of the Apps. I also use a few of the Stardock programs to customize things a bit and am happy with the way things work. The under-the-hood stuff is definitely an improvement over 7, but most users don't care about that. What MS needs to do to fix things is separate the two OSs immediately, retain some of the good things from 8 on the desktop side (like search functionality and the better start screen) and bring back some things from 7 (start menu as an option, maybe 2/3 size start screen?, definitely move power-on-off functions back to the start screen/menu from charms, eliminate charms). Run apps in windows on the desktop by default. I like eye candy but my bona fides in case any are suspicious: I do most of my software design in Linux in Vim and compile on a command line. I can use an IDE, but prefer the speed of Vim. The editor sucks in terms of accessibility, but the power gained after the learning curve makes up for it. So yeah, I'm a part-time Bash guy whose saying that the ribbon is objectively good, that Windows 8 doesn't deserve the screams it gets but still needs fixing, and that Windows 7 was the peak of MS's iterations on UI design. |
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| Author: | Bedwyr [ 04-11-2013, 08:24 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
Also a bit on the IDC report itself. I think a combination of factors are at work. 1) Tablets are wresting function from PCs. You're not going to view, watch, and play as many things as you once did on your PC. You'll still do some things, but you'll get used to your tablet. 2) Hardware development is focusing on power consumption now, not performance. Also, performance needs are nowhere near what they were. Basic computing can be accomplished by 5 year-old computers. Older if you're running Windows XP (and for heaven's sake, upgrade already! You're pissing off leagues of web designers and software engineers by hanging on for dear life. Also is saying the same thing). Even gamers like me have slowed down the upgrade cycle because consoles have been a drag on performance requirements for PC ports. As long as consumers don't make the connection between their power bill and PC they don't have immediate needs to upgrade. The box is working fine, hence a large contribution to drops in sales. 3) Desktops will not be long for the world. Other than boutiques and home builders, the market for actual functionality (not tablets) will stay with laptops. I use one laptop for gaming and work, hooking up a larger monitor, keyboard, and mouse at home. Works great. Saves space and power. I'm tempted to make another rig, but only because I want to experiment with a hackintosh build (and because linux support for CUDA on laptops sucks). 4) It's the economy stupid. Given the incentives to hold tight, why would anyone upgrade while the economy still has social anxiety disorder? Sooo, they'll hold tight. 5) Windows 8 has *some* effect. It's not nothing and its certainly not the boost people were hoping for. And yes Microsoft has fixing to do (and yes, it's questionable how tone deaf they are to complaints and wishes), but it doesn't explain the lion's share of the sales losses. I think the above reasons have more to do with it. |
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| Author: | TheAuldGrump [ 04-11-2013, 04:31 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
| Author: | Bedwyr [ 04-11-2013, 05:05 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
You're comparing the wrong things man. You need to take two people who have never touched the program and introduce them to the two respective interfaces. It's well known in human factors that you can teach anyone a control system. It doesn't mean that it's a good control system, just that humans are very adaptable. In aerospace we're capable of learning how to control things like Skylab, but have learned to organize systems not according to engineering needs and conveniences but according to operator and pilot need. Original Windows menuing is bad. Awful. You're just good at it because you've been doing it for a long time. Also the number of movements to access, say, MS Word is the same in both cases: Keyboard: winkey+"word" Mouse: move to lower-left, click, select Word (Also, you're mixing up the program ribbon with the start menu/start screen... they're two different things.) I don't begrudge your friends' clients the desire not to upgrade to Windows 8. It's no step forward except in a few small cases. Just that it's not a significant step back except in certain aesthetics. |
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| Author: | TheAuldGrump [ 04-11-2013, 07:08 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
| Author: | Zenguy [ 04-12-2013, 01:45 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
| Author: | Magius [ 04-12-2013, 04:22 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
I think it's also too early for them to have jumped in with an OS that brings the Tablet experience to the PC. Tablets are the new, hot thing - which means that people haven't yet fully incorporated their designs and ideals into their lives yet. If Microsoft had started with a spinoff OS for their own tablet (like they did with Win:CE for the Sega Dreamcast), then brought them together for Windows 9 (which would come out when all the people who grew up using tablets would be looking to get their own PCs as teens or upgrade their PCs as adults), I think it would have been more readily accepted. For the time being? Not enough incentive to change, and too many that prefer the old way of doing things. Not to mention that the technology to really make it shine on a desktop PC isn't exactly pervasive (I prefer 3d gaming monitors, and good luck finding one of those with a touch screen), and not what I would consider to be an intuitive fit (laptops, on the other hand...). In short, I'm not sure that this was so much a bad idea as a poorly timed one. Though, I think the barrier for the PC-Centric market would be very difficult to overcome for this style of software, as there are many features that are great for tablets/hybrid Laptops, but not feasible for desktop PCs (which would make up the bulk of their dedicated user base). |
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| Author: | T-G [ 04-12-2013, 06:56 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
I went ahead and upgraded to win 8 when the price was still $30 to do so. I tried it for a week or so, and I found that it did make my system perk up a bit, and things seem to run a bit quicker. I didn't like the interface, and some things, IMHO, seemed a bit counter intuitive. I installed Start8, and I'm back to working as usual with all the perks of win 8. It would have been nice to include the option of having the start menu. |
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| Author: | Zenguy [ 04-12-2013, 01:39 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
| Author: | TheAuldGrump [ 04-12-2013, 05:58 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
| Author: | TheAuldGrump [ 06-12-2013, 07:44 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
Wow... sounds like XBone is going to do to XBox gaming what Windows 8 did for the PC.... I have never heard a bunch of gamers as upset with a video game console as I did tonight.... The Microsoft spokesmonkey telling folks that if they don't have an online connection then they should stick with the 360... a classy, classy move. I think that he just made the PS4 the new champion.... And Sony is taking full advantage of Microsoft's stumble. The Auld Grump |
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| Author: | Ninevah [ 06-12-2013, 08:07 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
I have no interest in consoles, but a few of my gaming buddies are really into them and they've all been saying that the PS4 just made the new XBOX look like a clown: no persistent connection required, no DRM, and a cheaper price. |
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| Author: | ClausLars [ 06-16-2013, 04:27 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA I have no idea why using the youtube tags never work for me, but incase no one saw this it's definitely worth it. Sony taking a pot shot at Microsoft's new sharing/used game policy. It's such a low blow it's awesome, basically kicking while they're down and knocking out some teeth (note, that comparison may have been ripped off from a CNET article). |
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| Author: | TheAuldGrump [ 06-16-2013, 06:48 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
| Author: | ClausLars [ 06-16-2013, 07:32 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
Easy enough once you know the trick. Good to know too as I've had problems on other forums as well. |
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| Author: | TheAuldGrump [ 06-19-2013, 08:14 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
And now Microsoft is . The Auld Grump |
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| Author: | TheAuldGrump [ 06-22-2013, 10:01 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
And the 24 hour verification is gone. Let us rename the X-Box 1 the X-Box 180.... I pretty much agree with these choices, but it does make me wonder whether they bothered doing any market research at all before flapping their lips about their plans. And... I gather that the Wundows 8 'No - the Start button is gone forever!' stance was also reversed.... Not only is likely to be back for Windows 9 (coming sooner than MS hoped) but it has been retrofitted to Windows 8. Smooth moves.... The Auld Grump |
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| Author: | Ninevah [ 06-22-2013, 10:24 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Windows 8 - fear and loathing in PC land? |
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