[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file 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preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer 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[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file 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on line 4588: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3765) [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4589: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3765) [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions.php on line 4590: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/functions.php:3765) [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file 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line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file 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line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file 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line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file 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line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file 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line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file 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line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file 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line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 122: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 124: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file /includes/functions_reimg.php on line 126: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() WorldWorksGames • View topic - D&D 5th Edition
And, I think, that's part of the problem. IMO, there are really two ways to handle a RPG system - either going with an all-in-one approach, a la GURPS, FATE, Hero, or Mutants and Masterminds (which is to say, everything you need to create anything you want in your game and build a world in one to two books); or a Core + Expansions that has been the model to date, as well as the model for many other RPGs like Iron Kingdoms, D&D up to this point, or any of the Star Wars games.
Right now, D&D 5e is the worst of both worlds - they don't have the books released or announced to keep up with the Core + Expansions games, which are all getting rather well supported by this point, but they don't have enough content in the Core 3 (in terms of how to create your own stuff - poisons, diseases, Monsters, classes, etc - all are fairly lacking in detail, which makes things more difficult). So, they really need to push out content in order to keep attention on the system - either options to make it more flexible and rules-heavy, or slight tweaks to make it more flavorful.
Adventures are nice, but they're also the easiest part of the line to ignore. They're nice for new GMs, but experienced GMs would often rather run their own setting and stories than something pre-published - and it's relatively easy to convert old stuff to 5e, meaning that they are not only competing with what's in existence now, but everything that has come before.
So, with what we've received, we really do need more to bring players in (not the mountains that 3e and 4e tried to push on us, but something), otherwise it will just remain a nice novelty, without anyone really looking at it seriously (and, to be fair, it really is a fun system - but there's a lot more room to explore in nearly any other system I've looked at currently (which says nothing to how much I want to play - I'm loving the game I'm in, and really enjoying the system).
Maybe, but I'd think that would be an argument against focusing on adventures - which are readily available from throughout D&D's history, not to mention being able to stay current with the offerings from Pathfinder, Dungeon Crawl Classics, and any number of 3rd party publishers. Also, historically, adventures have been most useful to support a system, rather than defining it.
Also, there's a reason that first party adventure releases has historically tapered off over the lifetime of a D&D edition, in favor of splatbooks. The splatbooks sell, up until the point where they've saturated the market with them (though many times, that's due to an overly aggressive release schedule on them). Keep a sane release schedule, support it with adventures and fun storylines, and the edition should survive for 10 years (heck, balance it properly, and you can have a core ruleset that lasts for decades largely unchanged). But adventures alone aren't going to give the system the oomph it needs to penetrate the market, particularly one as saturated with good product as the RPG market is now.
I think that the extreme backwards compatibility is because the lack of backwards compatibility was one of the many things that killed 4e for a lot of people.
When even WotC tells people 'don't bother porting over, just start over!' like it was a good thing to abandon decades of material. (Seriously - it was great evidence that 4e was not a 'new edition' it was an entirely different game.)
Making the new edition of D&D compatible with older editions is an attempt to regain some of the lost audience.
The Auld Grump
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit.
Dirigible Joined: 10-17-2007, 07:46 AM Posts: 1201
I nearly bagged my party on the weekend.
I'm still running the stock adventure, and the players had hired on as guards to a caravan. The encounter is a miserably rainy night as they come across an inn. However a bunch of assassins had rented an entire inn, and taunt the players/teamsters to incite violence.
My players fell for it, and unfortunately escalated things right out of control. The party's leader roused a mob of other guards to go in and demand a drink. Insults flew... and yep, the rogue started chanting "fight fight fight". The assassins mowed through the guards and a few characters with no trouble, then offered, "Yield or die". Two players said, "yield"... but the party leader pulled back and said, "Death First". As more of the group got dropped he finally fled.
Given that the players who were dropped were also the ones who tried to yield, I simply had them robbed, and ejected from the inn in their small clothes.
Has anyone seen the Elemental Evil adventure? Its a full on sandbox of 3 to 17th level.
Once again, my players remind me that AD&D stands for Attention Deficit & Disorder...
There are a few. It includes a new playable race (the Genasi) with 4 sub-races along with a few dozen spells. It wraps up with handful of magic items, and that's it for what the players get. Not really worth it if you just want the player materials, but it's there.
So, the game has been around for over a year - how's it doing for folks?
It seems to have overtaken Pathfinder, reclaiming the #1 spot for D&D.
I am not hearing anywhere near the amount of edition warring. (And some of the loudest are being shouted down by both sides yelling 'shut up!') With 4e, the opening volleys of the edition wars were made by WotC themselves, and it bit them in the bum.
Still not a lot of 5e books - but then Wizards got burned pretty bad by returns on 4e, so that is understandable.
I gather that 5e is also a lot more houserule friendly than 4e was, closer to BECMI than to any later edition.
Thoughts?
The Auld Grump - still sticking to Pathfinder, but not hating 5e.
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit.
Most of the games that I'm part of have stayed with Pathfinder (with the exception of one which is testing the waters with Mutants and Masterminds 3e for a bit), though the one 5e game I'm a part of is going quite strong, and really has some unusual character concepts taking part that I'm not sure would work in any other edition (primarily, my gnomish urchin-turned-self-taught-wizard who still has a bad case of sticky fingers where books are concerned and a gnome 'acquirer' - AKA Rogue Arcane Trickster - who is a devout follower of a lawful good god (one of his traits is "I do what the church cannot."). It's really a change of pace with the characters, and gives quite a lot of flavor outside of the standard norms (of course, we also have a few more run of the mill style characters, but still).
Loving it, but wishing for some Eberron support. Somethings are hard to houserule into existence (like a decent Artificer).
I think our group dynamic is getting stronger with this game as our focus has turned to RP and Character Development more than in the past. The game isn't forcing it, but it certainly helps it along.
Website for my Father: http://www.keepthespiritkilleen.com
Yeah, the three trait system really goes a long way toward defining a character from the get go, and making sure that people don't try to play perfect characters all the time. Add in the Inspiration rule for good roleplaying, and you have a huge motivation to play the character well (after all, getting Advantage on all rolls in an encounter is pretty huge!), without having a lot of rules trying to force it. And the game is simple and organic enough that you can just run with it.
As for the Artificer, I would imagine a reskinned Warlock with a scholarly or priestly background would get you a good ways there. Talk with the GM about adding a couple of proficiencies to the character in exchange for the character basically needing focuses for everything, and I think you'll have a pretty solid start on it (and perhaps whip up some rules for improving some stuff along the way, maybe spending an Inspiration to gain a spell they don't have for a scene would be fair).
Of the many differences between 2e and 3e, nailing down magic item creation was a biggie.
The difference between item creation in 3e and 4e was also a biggie - and one that did not play out in favor of 4e. (The difference between 3.5 and Pathfinder is less major, but item creation in Pathfinder is a bit riskier - no XP cost for item creation, but there is a roll, and it can be fumbled.)
The Auld Grump
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit.
Gear Head Joined: 11-09-2011, 03:55 PM Posts: 619 Location: Where the mountains, plains, and desert meet
As an aside, I think that both D&D and Pathfinder have already passed their saturation point. Sure, D&D retook it's lead, but at numbers below 4th edition. Pathfinder really hasn't had anything new (like, say, a modern campaign of any type) in quite a while, so people have largely got what they wanted out of the system.
This isn't a statement of quality on either game, of course.. just that, who's left to buy new product, and what new product is out there that isn't just yet another rehash of the same material we've ALREADY had ten versions of in the past few years?
Kitbash / Boosters Works In Progress: TLX - Deadfall - Dusty Alleys Booster MMM - Beefy Chef (Reworking) TLX - Evil Genius HQ - Inner Sanctum
WorldWorks Moderator Joined: 10-17-2006, 05:54 PM Posts: 1847
When it came time to start a new rpg campaign with the offspring, I decided to go with original D&D. Of course, the rules are a bit of a mess, so I wound up using Swords & Wizardry White Box. So few rules I can customize it exactly the way I want with very little effort (see my other topic on Defiler Magic In OD&D) and character stats fit on a 3"x5" notecard. With less information required to play, we have been able to focus more on personality and story and less on rules and stats.
Yeah, I daresay that it's an uphill climb for 5e to regain the majority of the fan base now. To win over all the folks who went to Pathfinder, Paizo probably has to do something to alienate them or drive them away.
Hmmm, it looks like 5e is outselling any one of the Pathfinder products at the local BaM!.
The Pathfinder line has more sales total, but it is spread across several products. (Not a surprise - Core, Advanced Players Guide, and the first Bestiary are the best sellers, Ultimate Campaign is holding on, but those first three are more than half of the pathfinder sales in any given month.)
Neither the Pathfinder Beginner's Box or the Dungeons & Dragons basic box are doing all that well - and most of the Beginner Box sales are to people that already own the Core. (Sometimes as gifts for their children, and sometimes because the contents of the box are useful. But still only one or two a month.)
The Auld Grump
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit.
Ugh.... apparently the sales for 5e are flatlining just as fast as for 4e.
The core three books are doing okay - but the adventures just aren't moving - it is more common for folks to buy 5e rules and a Pathfinder adventure. (Not the Adventure Path adventures - the stand alone adventures. I have no idea why. *EDIT* Price, duh! The free standing adventures are cheaper than either the Adventure Path adventures or the 5e adventures.)
The Auld Grump
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit.
Yeah, I can't say that I'm terribly surprised by that. There's a reason that crunch ruled the day through 3e and 4e (and, to a somewhat lesser extent, 2e) - it's hard to come up with fun, balanced crunch for players to work with in a game, but it's relatively easy to come up with and tell a story in an RPG. So... Crunch books always sell well, but adventures tend to do fairly poorly (unless they're along the lines of the Adventure Paths, which put out a ton of material for the adventures). Plus, there's tons of competition because of how easy it is to port stuff to 5e.
I am kind of surprised that they haven't tried carrying any of the 3rd party 5e adventures at BaM! yet.
And... I gather from a highly placed source at the local BaM! (Hi Megan!) that the Pathfinder Adventure Paths do sell to the 5e GMs. But they buy a starting adventure first, to see if it can be done, before investing in a Path. (The highly placed source and her cohorts are why the GMs try the Pathfinder adventures first - apparently the sticker shock from seeing the price of the hardcover WotC adventures is a great selling point for older Pathfinder adventures.... The salespeople stress that it is an easy conversion, and that Paizo makes good, solid, and affordable adventures. The scary thing is that they sold two of the hardcover Rise of the Runelords to 5e GMs... that book ain't cheap!)
The Auld Grump - I think that it is the goblins that sell that adventure....
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit.
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