I am all in favor of expansion packs. I think what might have people leary is an incomplete product where you have to buy the expansions. Having a fully useable starting set takes care of that problem rather well.

Having expansions that can stand on their own... harder, but likely to pull in folks who want a cheap way of testing the waters, so perhaps some way to tell which are stand alon expansions' and which are 'prop packs'? Extra buildings for VWU and CWU would be stand alone expansions, while extra doors, windows, and damage walls would make for 'prop packs'.

I will admit to being dubious about the 'dog-eat-dog' problem, esp. in regards to an earlier set you made, but when the same thing happened to another company it seemed rather well confirmed.

The Auld Grump

After looking at the preview pictures, I can't help but wonder if you might turn some people off: too complex, too detailed, too much work. Not a complaint, just an observation. I think you should keep CastleWorks Classic around for two reasons: it is extremely affordable, and easy to build, but still a quality product, which is not intimidating; secondly, it is a 'basic' castle, which will appeal to those who want a simpler, easier, castle to build.

"The Maiden", while gorgeous, is very complex. It is intimidating, to look at. I found myself saying, "This is a gorgeous model, but it is more than I want, or need; I will only use it in a limited fashion, within my RPG, and mini's games." Hence, I never bought it. I would not mind having one to put on my fireplace mantle, though...

I suspect that CWU may be 'over the top', for many customers. I would suggest you keep the older, simpler, product lines around, as "introductory" sets, for those who want something simpler, in design, and easier to build. The more complex, advanced, models, are a bit scary for those who are new to the hobby of card stock modeling. Besides, keeping CastleWorks Classic around, won't cost you anything; it is likely, most people will graduate up to CWU, from CastleWorks Classic, anyway, giving you two sales. I really can't help but wonder if CWU is more than I really want/need, for my games. I won't know until I view it on my PC, and then print some of it off, and build it, though. It IS beautiful, but I fear it is more than I want/need, for complexity. I am likely the very small minority, but if you can appeal to both markets (those who want simpler models, and those who want the uber models), all the better for everyone, including your bottom line. Cheers!

Sgtslag has a couple of very good points there; I agree completely that you should keep CW Classic around as an 'intro' set, perhaps even give anyone that buys CWC after CWU comes out a discount or something off CWU, that way you get to make two sales. Simple is still beautiful in some cases

Secondly I agree that while the stuff looks absolutely fantastic I can already see that it is perhaps almost TOO detailed, if that makes sense. Due to not having a printer at home I use the colour laser at work, and whilst the print quality is astounding, it has to be on paper as card jams the feeder. Hence, things that are easy to build are a godsend because chances are they won't last very long anyway! I think you run the risk by making the models more complicated with cool features that people simply won't build it at all - take the gatehouse, it looks awesome, but do I really need a working chain and pulley gate raising mechanism in a cardboard model? All I really need is a way to indicate if the gate is open or closed.

You're getting TOO GOOD at this, Denny - I don't want to play with the stuff of yours I build, I want to display it. Given that I buy the stuff initially for rpg and minis purposes, is it possible that what you're doing is too much of a good thing?

Food for thought perhaps.

Rather than a discount (which can't really be mechanically done with RPGnow), what would happen if Denny kept CastleWorks Classic around as an intro product, as suggested....and also packaged it in with CastleWorks Ultimate? Those who want both can get CC "free", while those who only want the simplicity of CC can get it.

Actually, you can do a discount on rpgnow - I also buy a lot of 2D tiles currently from another vendor, and he regularly sends out 'coupons' to prior purchasers that get you $1 off each new release as it comes out. I see no reason Denny couldn't do the same, maybe make the coupon more attractive ($2? $3?) and have some blurb in the CWU page:

"Not sure if this is for you? Try CWC for $5 (or whatever it is now) and if you like it get $3 off on CWU".

Might be worth a shot. Just wanted to clarify though that discounts ARE possible at rpgnow

The problem lies in tying the purchase of CWC to the discount on CWU...a difficult proposition.

Having just bought CWC, I can say that I understand Denny's reasonings here. Don't get me wrong, CWC is very pretty and all, but there are a couple of issues that could turn off others if that's the only thing from WWG they get (margin problem, anyone? ).

I think that retiring it shortly after the release of CWU would be the best move. I don't even think that coupons are necessary (especially if they further increase the vendor fees by another 5%). As it is, $5 is a really, really cheap price, and the manor house alone is worth that.

Even so, there's no reason why Denny couldn't clean up the manor house a bit, maybe add some new textures to match CWU, and release it later in an expansion pack or something.

I can fully understand Denny's desire to only present the "best work" of WWG. Once CWC is retired, he could easily use a couple of bits of it as "free samples" to entice other purchases...

I just bought CWC myself and it maybe old but it was definately worth the $5.00. I plan on buying CWU as well but I like having CWC that way I have two differnt looks of castles for my differnt factions. So I am glad I got it before Denny retired it.

I also have CWC and intend to get CWU. I do think that CWC is a good intro set, but does have some limitations (the one sided printing on the crenelations for example - I managed a work around by taking a snapshot with Acrobat Reader, then sending it to Paint, but .. This is a problem that it looks like CWU bypasses entirely ).

On the other hand I rather liked the manor house...

The Auld Grump

By the way, whatever happened to the WorldWorks store? Aren't we supposed to be able to buy WWG products from the WWG web site soon? How is that coming along?

Denny, from a marketing stand-point, you REALLY need to hammer the point that CWU has a telescoping complexity level... I am certain that it could scare off many potential customers, if you don't make it abundantly clear as to its scalability... CWC is long in the tooth, but it is still a work worthy of my table top. I am building a B&W copy for the Battle of Helm's Deep, based on the books, not the movie. The B&W version is perfect!

No, CWC is not your best effort, but it is still a great product. I understand your viewpoint on marketing, also: to have CWC competing against CWU, would be foolish. I hope you can find a way to keep it on the market, without conflicting with other products. I believe CWC is more appealing to the historical market, than CWU, but that is based only upon the few photo's released, thus far. Don't ignore the historical group, please -- bad business idea, as they form a sizable market, unto themselves.

I, too, will be purchasing CWU. It is beautiful! I am much relieved to hear the complexity level is scalable, with different options for designs available. CWC is very good, especially with the B&W option (I mixed in color wooden floors on the tower tops, and wall sections...), but it is still somewhat limited. Cheers!

I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works... I want a sneak at Space Works...

All of the above, actually. It also has a dark, dirty appearance, which looks more like current views of post-modern apocalypse architecture, rather than historical castle walls. To me, it looks like a 'fantasy castle' Hollywood might produce for a sci-fi/fantasy film; it does not, in my opinion, look like a historical castle, neither by color scheme, nor by design elements.

None of these are complaints!!! It is just an opinion, that it is geared more towards a specific, non-historical, audience. I think it is a great design. I also believe it is for a specific audience, which is somewhat exclusive. With a 3D model of plastic, for example, the owner/modeler can paint it any way they deem appropriate: historical, post-modern, or fantasy. With a paper model, the designer has to color, and texture, the model, according to what they feel will sell best. The leeway afforded by a paint scheme, is not available to the model builder (the consumer), in this case.

Not complaining, just clarifying earlier statements. I feel CWC is more appropriate to historical gamers, as it is less dark, and foreboding, in design. CWC is much closer to what I envision, when I imagine a medieval castle. CWU has far superior design elements, and it is a much truer, 3D represntation, but it also has a very different color scheme. Perhaps there will be a more 'historical' castle in the future of WWG's new products being developed?... Cheers!

I based the CWU color scheme on CWC with the same dusty brown overtones. The difference with this set is that all of my textures are made from scratch and the look is far more “graphic”. While not an overtly historic design I was shooting for a more generic multi-genre look. Sgtslag’s comment “To me, it looks like a 'fantasy castle' Hollywood might produce for a sci-fi/fantasy film” is a very flattering remark because that’s exactly what I was shooting for. To me this set represents the top of my game in terms of design and visual style (hopefully a view shared by my audience when they buy the set). I’ve learned so much since starting out two years ago and I think it’s appropriate that this set will be replacing CastleWorks Classic. This is the beginning of a new chapter for WorldWorks and another “rising of the bar”.

The build itself is really quite easy and as a result I take the “fear factor” as a great compliment. Based on everyone’s reaction what this means to me is that I’ve achieved a very complex look without creating a complex build. You can create a substantial castle in little more than a week (couple hours a night). One thing that is always in the forefront of my mind is just how long something takes to create. I don’t want people spending more time building than playing. I want quick builds that don’t look like quick builds.

I will be sure to make clear in the product description that this set is for all skill levels. I will also make clear that it is scalable based on how far you want to take the little details.

I really appreciate everyone’s feedback here. I love the fact that I can draw on such a rich pool of knowledge and opinion. Your collective wisdom helps to guide me in areas I might otherwise overlook or lack experience in. Thanks!

Historical castles were often whitewashed with lime. I have made a few historically accurate castles, and well *looks right, left, and then whispers* They look boring... CWC is in fact fairly accurate, with some reservations. (Wall thickness, two Dimnsional sides) but CWU looks rather nece, and I would be willing to bet fig bars to dollars that I can make an historically reasonable castle with it, if needed borrowing elements from CWC. (One note, I don't see the towers that normally flank the gates of a castle (dang, can't remember their name, guess it's nappy time...), that would be one of the first fixes I would need to make. But I have no doubt that I can. U-U) The only part I look at and say 'that will have to go' is the arch in front of the gat - more appropriate to a palace than a castle.

And yes, very cinematic. I can see duels on top of the gallows for the banners even now...

The Auld Grump

Well can the sly remarks Denny and wrap it up!!!!!!!!!
We want CWU!
We want CWU!
And we want it now!!!!!!



Lord Abaddon of Wormwood





or ASAP

Denny, the "Hollywood style" comment was, indeed, a compliment. I've looked at many fantasy/sci-fi flicks' castles, and uttered, unconsciously, "Wow...", under my breath. It is VERY cool looking.

With regards to the complexity issue, I am really looking foward to checking it out. It does look complex to build. If this is an illusion, then you have really achieved a great feat! I don't mind complex models, myself, as this is something I enjoy, to a point. I just wanted to make you aware of some marketing "gotcha's", before release. If you present it properly (which I know you will...), you won't have any difficulties. Also, with this rabid fan group, we should be able to put enough comments out, on various forums, and on the customer feedback for RPGNow.com, that the market should have a very good idea of just how incredible this product is, before they buy it.

I hope you are considering this for a pre-printed set. I know the pitfalls of making a modular castle pre-printed, but I still think this is a good candidate, purely from a marketing perspective, to get people into this product. You know best, though. Cheers!