Matt,

I have yet to walk into an older church that I would describe as subtle.
So I really don't have a problem with how many pentacles you have scattered over the building...

You actually could get away with not having very many pentacles if you made a single level Cathedral using the tall walls and replaced the floor with something from Shellendrak Manor.

Doing that by my count you would have exactly one pentacle in the build...

So it is possible to avoid the pentacles if you want to using just what Matt gave us... It's really the floor, short walls and Pillar/Rails that are covered in pentacles.

Wow, Bob, thanks for writing it all up. I'm sure it will help whatever kitbasher jumps on this immensely.

Sacretis

Thanks Bob. The issue isn't really a comparison with a true-to-life cathedral though. I know that there's all kinds of funny, arcane imagery in cathedrals all over europe (even a baptist church I attended in the midwest had obscure mason symbology like triangles, circles, anchors, and such that had "supposed" Christian meaning).

I think I'd prefer the idealized cathedral or temple. After all that's the fantasy world I occupy most of the time. My goal would be to create a faithful rendition of Empath Abbey from either Ultima VII or IX, so the stained glass would be my own (compassion, valor, honesty, avatar, etc) and I'd just paste some ankhs all over and maybe increase the woodwork quotient to make it more homey.

So what I'd prefer is the idealized clean cathedral that's sufficiently generic enough to create a Christian cathedral, Ultima cathedral, generic, slightly dark, or the most evil Diablo setting you can think of.

Wasn't presenting a defense, just an analysis.

Obviously, there's various extremes to which this can be taken, and Cathedrae Noctis represents one of those extremes.

A "historic" middle-ages cathedral is almost within reach of this set.

A "modern" cathedral such as the one in Washington DC would require serious reworking, and represents a much "cleaner" approach.

A "fantasy-nice" cathedral, such as the homey and welcomming Empath Abbey (and yes, I'm a big Ultima fan, so I know what you're talking about and would love to see it) is a bit further still removed.

Perhaps the opposite extreme would be a "Celestial" temple. White marble, everything clean and glowing, cherubim and seraphim, nothing even so much as chipped or out of place.


The biggest problem is that each and every one of these could be their own separate set.

We'll study over all of the comments posted here and *consider* revisiting the Cathedral. As Matt said earlier, it is a definate "IF". But I would also like to point out...this thread is most definately being read.

["who is in charge here" issue]

Hah hah...Nice one Bob. Kinda sums it up... For my purposes I'm pretty sure I can bash what I need. I'm not going to wait...I'm going to buy it today. [/quote]

Glad my original post resulted in some very interesting and mature conversation. Must love this group only for that. Also glad that Worldworks is considering an internal discussion on a Cathedrae Diem/or at least an adaptation. Real professionals. BTW: I would love a clean Cathedral for WWII 28mm gaming (so also a ruined version? )

For me the biggest question is if Matt will be creating an add-on or "non-evil" cathedral or nothing at all. I have held off from buying Cathedrae Noctis as I know it will require quite a lot of photoshop/conversion work for it to be usable for me. I would like something that could work if placed with Mayhem buildings. I like the old European cathedral look over some modern church you would see today. If Matt is going to create a non evil version then I will just wait. If he isn't then I will eventually buy Cathedrae Noctis and give it a go as a kit bash, but it would be very low priority.

-Audrey

For those of you who are wondering I'm knee deep in my next project so it will be a good, long while before I have a chance to even consider this issue.

The floor could be easily swapped with ones from another set, CWU, C&K, maybe one of the shellendraks. Also there is a stained glass kitbash for shellendrak maybe that could be adjusted to fit.

I bought it...It's a piece of cake bash to make less specific. The pentagrams on the floor don't bother me much. The skulls on the walls easy enough to clone out. Quite a lot of fairly generic stained glass and the demons are fairly typical (Would someone like to take a crack at the circle window?). I'd maybe lighten the whole thing just using my printer settings, which would make it easier on the ink anyways... And I just looked at all the walls...Couldn't really see any dripping blood...

...We're not building a piano here...though a pipe organ might be nice:) Oh wait...we're getting both aren't we?:)