I've seen a couple posts here that talk about loading things into an image editing program to kitbash them. I'd like to try this, but I'm not managing very good results - I've tried selecting an area in Acrobat Reader, exporting it as an image, and then loading it into Paint Shop Pro. Unfortunately, the image resolution seems to be determined by the screen resolution, so instead of getting a section of image at 300dpi, the whole image might be less than 800 pixles wide (depending on how much I select.) I'm guessing there's a better way to do this, but I have no idea what it is.

I have GIMP, Paint Shop Pro 7, and Photoshop 7. If anyone could give me some pointers, or point me at a thread or tutorial, I'd really appreciate it.

What works well for me is to open the PDF in Photoshop, and make all the changes I want there. When I first open the file, it will ask me what size and resolution I want. I choose the default of 8.5" x 11" @ 200dpi.

A couple tips to save you grief down the road: Duplicate the original layer, so you'll always have the original to fall back on and refer to. Also, be sure and save your work as a Photoshop file, to keep your layers intact.

If you want to modify just one small model on the page, you can crop the image to get rid of the rest. Or, if it's an item you are going to need many of, keep the page full-size and duplicate your final result to fill the page.

Hope this helps to get you started. Photoshop has a bit of a steep learning curve, but I feel the results are well worth it.

More! Please.

More tips, more ideas...small things I would change, but graphic neophite here.

Programs? Techniques?

I need a new graphic editor, my 30 day free trial of Paint Shop Pro (7.02) included with my computer just ran out after 795? days and I need a new program.

Pages usually copy fine for mirroring and flipping, but many elements paste in at funny sizes requiring guessing on printer scaling.

You might want to get a copy of Gimp. The last time I looked, it was still free, and it's pretty powerful. Although it's a bit more towards the Photoshop end of things on the interface. (Also, it is mostly being designed for Linux, so some of the things the interface does are a bit wierd, from a Windows point of view.)

I used to be a huge fan of GIMP. Denny brought me around by giving me my duties here. There is a reason Photoshop is so expensive. It is that good,and for bashing, being able to grab the files straight from a .pdf is much easier. That's just my takeon it. Soemtimes you can find the not so new version on e-bay for much less than market for CS2. I wouldn't suggest anything less than Photoshop 7 though. That's where I started, and layer styles rule....

I got introduced to Photoshop..oh 11 years ago now. Version 3(or 3.5) had just come out. I've never looked back since. I guess it only makes sense being in the Graphic Design field.

There are sooooo many FREE tutorials for Photoshop on the web. And a Virtual library of good books. I suggest starting there. (stop by amazon.com and do a search for Photoshop books. Most of the relavant ones are reviewed and rated)

A tutorial CD comes with Photoshop that will (via movie clip demonstrations) quickly get your feet wet in how to use photoshop to do things.

-Floyd

ps. The layer styles are hands down thee best new features in Photoshop since they updated it's text handling engine a version or 2 back.

What do layer styles add? I've got P6 at home, and P7 at work, but most of my fooling around has been with P6, so I'm unfamiliar with the newer features.

Ok, lots of votes for Photoshop, guess I will give it a search.

Confused, oh ya. So, the newest, bestest is PhotoShop CS2 v9?

Adobe wants $599, k.

Some places offer the d/l for as low as $65, really?? Is that right?

I'm not sure I only paid 399 and that was at bestbuy so your best bet is to shop around first

I got mine for $99. If you are a student many universities have an educational program.

--Chris

Damn!!! I sould have waited cuz I start up next semester for Graphic Design and Computer Arts

I take a much more "brute force" approach.

I open the PDF file I want to work on, and put it in it's best resolution (usually 200%, 300%, or 400%...depending on the detail level).

Then I hit "print screen" and paste it into Paint Shop Pro (version 9).

I manipulate it from there.


I'm sure most everyone here will (rightly) tell you this is the WRONG way to go about it...but it's worked for me for what I've needed to accomplish.

Wrong...Wrong...Wrong....WRONG.

Sorry, no one had said it, so I'll take the bait.

--Chris

Actually, the Gimp can open pdf files directly as well. I think this is a fairly new feature (within the last year or so, probably).

True, Photoshop has way more bells and whistles, but how much of that do you really need to kitbash from an existing design?

I mean, it's not as if we're creating new textures here. At most, we're doing some distortion of existing textures, or doing a little touchup here and there )as I did for the Maiden front hull). For that , the Gimp is more than enough. And you can't beat the price!


Before finding out that the Gimp could read pdf files as well, I've used this technique too:


Except in my case I would save it into Paint and then transfer the file to my Linux box to edit it using the Gimp.

Just display the pdf in Acroread at 100%, take a screen shot and see what resolution you get. Then scale the pdf up in Acroread to get to a 300dpi resolution total (I believe 250% zoom was the magic number last time I tried). You may need to stitch sections together if the whole image doesn't fit on one screen.

Until all graphics programs are able to read pdf, this is probably the most widely available method to import pdf files into your favorite graphics program. Glad to hear it's now officially endorsed by WorldWorks staff!

I have a full version of Acrobat, so I just Export the pages I want to bash to an image file, then work with the image. That is a fairly easy way to do it - as long as you have that capability with Image.

I currently use Paint Shop Pro, because its what I have, but its an older version, and I may look at GIMP or even suck it up and shell out for a better graphics program (hmm, or convince my company I need a newer one for our new site design). It works well enough, supports layers, and has lots of cool, nifty tools.

To be honest, though, the two most important things I need is 1) a way to be able to cut and paste in an image, and a way to do it with various sizes/shapes, and 2) a grid alignment tool. Rarely do I use any other effect - the rest is really just gloss (nice gloss, but gloss). If you can master just those two things (cutting and pasting, and using a grid to make sure your sizing is correct), you're 90% of the way to great kitbashing.


I will emphasize a point made earlier: whatever way you do it, save often, and save versions. You can always delete extra files later on.


As for Photoshop tutorials, look here: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=photoshop+tutorial - google is your friend.

A very important note on Photoshop versions: There are several ways to buy it.

You can get the full CS2 (Creative Suite 2), that has a bunch of other programs as well.

You can get just Photoshop CS2.

Or, if you're budget minded or looking to check it out, I'd recommend getting Photoshop Elements 2. It has pretty much everything you'd ever want or need; all of the most useful tools for kitbashing. Once you're used to it and want more features, CS3 will probably be out.

In addition, there's a Student & Teacher edition of CS2 (full and just PS), but you have to prove your existence as such.

Oh I forgot Photoshop Elements2.0 (I think thats what it's called) is a very trimmed down version of Photoshop, but it sells for under $100. And it would work just fine for the work described. And as you get more comfortable with the Adobe system you could always get the full Photoshop. (All the basic features are there for image manipulation, you just don't get all the filters and a few advanced items. Plus the Layers manipulation is a little more limited.

Still an excellent piece of software.

-Floyd

I'm using Adobe Photoshop 6.0 I also use Corel Draw 8 and Corel Photo-Paint 8.

I like Photoshop better but I don't know all of the functions like I do with Corel.

For the benefit of people who'd like to give it a hand but can't directly open PDFs, I've made this tiny tutorial to figuring out what works for you:

1: In your paint program, create a 200 pixels/inch image
The best possible size is 8,5"x11" minus margins, but anything will do.

2: In the PDF (at 100% scale), use the 'photo' icon to clip the bit you want. Use something that has a clearly defined size, ideally 1"x1".

3: Paste it in your paint program, within the picture you want.

4: On a different layer, draw a 200x200 square (for 1"x1").

5: Resize the layer with the WWG picture ((say, 200%) and see if it matches your 200x200 square. If it doesn't match up, cancel the resize and try again. What we're hoping for is to get the % multiplier required to make the imported picture measure exactly its original size.

6: Once you have the final % (mine is 205%, from a 1280x1024 screen resolution), blow up the pdf to that size and use the camera icon to photograph it again. Note that you can snap an area larger than the screen by scrolling.

7: Paste the new capture into your paint program as a new layer and see if it still matches up to the square. You know that your picture is at 200 pixels per inch, so any 200x200 square is exactly one inch by one inch. Print a small model to be sure. If it works, you've got it.

As all WWG images are 200dpi, you will not need to measure again: just blow it up to the same percentage every time, remembering to make the destination image 200 pixels/inch.

Did I make any sense? Yeah, I know, some of it falls into the category of wrong-wrong-wrong...

Good luck!

Archon Shiva brings up a good point. IF the WWG PDFs are at 200dpi, then there's no point in trying to scale up to 300dpi.

Based on that, my previous kit bashes have all been done by using the image copier tool in Acrobat, pasting it into PaintShop Pro 7, and then making my modifications. Works well enough for me.

Janx

Hm... I thought they were at 300dpi? Now I'm going to have to go check...



Edit: By golly, ye're right! Guess I just assumed it was 300 dpi, and never bothered to check! The Gimp will let you read in pdf files at whatever resolution you specified, so I'd been doing all my kitbashing at 300 dpi.

Ah well, at least this'll make some of my future kitbashing go faster.

Not to confuse matters, but IIRC, Denny said at some point that the retail CDs were at 300 dpi for the Maiden. Am I off my rocker, or can someone corroborate this?

[edit] typo

Well, the download version is 200 dpi - just checked. Same with UM:MA. Dunno about the older sets. I have the InterWorks combo, but Gimp can't seem to open those. Maybe some sort of protection on the pdf file?

Yeah, I'm talking about the retail CDs, not the downloads.

About not being able to open the pdf in GIMP: you should start a thread in the Customer Service category. That'd kinda put a crimp in our kitbashing abilities.

The 200 pixels/inch thought dawned on me while opening a pdf in PhotoShop the other day. Default was 72 pixels/inch. 200 pixels/inch solved my "fuzzy" look on printing, duh, .

So, of course, thanks again.

Now to figure out the cut and paste technique. .

There are PDF editor programs that are available on the internet for free or much less than an Adobe product. Some may have a lot of features, others may be of little use for anything besides extracting images from unrestricted PDF files.

You could extract an image into, say BMP format, edit it in your favorite program, and then insert the modified picture into a copy of the original PDF file and get the same scale and proportions as the original image.

I'd say more, but I don't want to risk offending our most generous and kind graphics designers. I'll just remind everyone that the search engine is your friend.

(And to our kind hosts: If I seem to be a bit 'conspiritorial' in my way of speaking around what I want to say, I've been smacked down my boderators before for being 'too helpful' and mentioning something that worked well for me and would likely work for the person I was replying too, but the mention of brand names other than those of the Games Company who was hosting the board was verboten, and I couldn't even guide the person to the forums that would help since the address included the brand name. I'm also cautios about having my first post here be construed as a step-by-step on copyright infringement, again due to the smackdown from that Workshop forum.)

Gotta put my vote in for Photoshop CS/CS2. I've also just gained access to Illustrator CS and InDesign CS2 via a freelance project I might undertake through my girlfriend's job, but haven't had the time to play with them... I'm still learning as i go...

I myself use 2 different programs for my bashing the main one is Photoshop CS/CS2 and Jasc Paint Shop Pro 9. I've been tring a couple of different ones as I speak of it, but with little success. I still like the first two that I mentioned. They are user friendly and have so many more options then the other programs that I've used in the past

Boy, some of you are going about it the hard and painful way. The easiest way to get things from Acrobat Reader 7 into *any* paint app at the proper size:

1. In Acrobat Reader, go to Edit>Preferences.

2. You'll see a dialog box with a Categories list pane and a settings pane. From the list pane on the left, click on General.

3. You'll then see two frames in the settings pane. The top one is Miscellaneous, and the bottom one is Selection. In the Selection frame, tick the checkbox for "Use Fixed Resolution For Snapshots".

4. In the Resolution input box, enter the DPI you want.

That's it. After that point, using the Snapshot tool will copy the images out at the desired resolution, and you'll be able to paste them in at the right pixel dimensions.

Some tips:

1. For best results, make sure images aren't smoothed when using the Snapshot tool. To disable image smoothing, go to Edit>Preferences>Page Display and untick the checkbox labeled "Smooth Images". It'll look bad onscreen, but trust me-it'll be sharper and clearer when you copy and paste it. (This gets rid of blurriness or softness.)

2. Don't forget to change the resolution of the pasted image in the paint app afterwards.

-Mel