I think Mel's standard has worked the best, with the fewest complaints and errors. It's simply spacing the registration marks to 7.25 x 9.5 inches. This works out well because most international paper sizes can print this at 100% size with no problems.

Just remember not to add any design element inside the square area created by each registration marks, or it will screw up the " find reg marks" routine it goes through to register the page.

I had one hell of a time getting my cutter to work for me, but I now know it was from a lack of beer.
JIM

I didn't want to let this thread die, and to check on the status of updating older models. I've been busy working on other sets for people, but it seems as though highland piper is helping out WWG. Can we get a list of the folks working on the conversions?

I was thinking of volunteering to do the Wormhole set, but I was reading hints that there might be a big release coming for it soon, so I'm not sure if it's worth my time. Also, did Denny ever say if he was willing to trade free sets for conversions? ;-D

It doesn't look like we have a centralized place for conversions yet, I've seen posts from another thread of someone who converted swampworks trees and village tops but it's not in the excel document. I think it would be good to have a list here...

Can everyone chime in with what they've converted?

Thanks,

There's no structured organization for this and I think some people are confusing GSD conversions with TerrainlinX conversions. GSD conversions and the graphic tweaks required to make it work are ok...TLX conversions are not ok (at least not yet).

Anyway, I am perfectly willing to exchange free product (of the converters choosing) for 100% completed product GSD files and associated graphic tweaks that are required to move elements into that "safe cut zone". Just as long as people realize that when I say complete, I mean that in every sense of the word:

* The entire product must be converted. No freebies for half complete projects.

* Must be properly organized in roughly the same folder structure as the original product.

* Must include a neatly organized GSD file folder with rational GSD labeling.

* Altered model graphics (repositioned to fit the safe cut zone) must be output to PDF at their native resolution (depending on the product that's either 200 or 300dpi).

* Complete package must be zipped up and ready to roll.

* Must be uploaded to a secure file server (That's one point you can ping me on here once files are complete).

I'm not saying any of the above to be a picky asshat but I know how crazy things get schedule-wise and we don't have a ton of time to help with conversions. BUT we FULLY support them!

I'm pretty sure I would buy all sets updated to robo standards. I know I've been reluctant to buy non-conforming sets.

Denny - I know some people have already converted parts of WWG sets to craftrobo (not Terrainlinx) and I'd love to get my hands on the GSD files for it. For example I'd really love to get GSD files for the swampworks or hinterland sets. I know SwampWorks has been at least partially converted and I don't want to print out that set until I've got GSD files for some of the harder pieces.

So my question to Denny is - do you have GSD files for some of the WWG sets? I don't care if the set is only partially converted, I'll take whatever I can get.

No I don't have any fan based conversions. This brings up something that needs clarity though; it isn't simple GSD files we're talking about. For the whole thing to work you need to digitally manipulate modelset page graphics and the placement of those elements to fit within the so called "safe cut zone". Sometimes it will work without having to alter anything graphically but more often than not this isn't the case.

So conversions are about more than just creating GSD cutpaths. In most cases it means the entire product needs to be heavily modified from the ground up. We would gladly share GSD cutpath files for free if that's all it was but because it spills over into the modification of the actual PDF product we can't do things that way. If and when we do have full conversions, we'll need to re-upload the entire product to the server so that customers can re-download previous purchases.

This is a BIG job and I want to stress that conversions aren't on our current priority list. We've got very few hands onboard to dedicate time to this and we need our focus on our future lineup of products. That said, if fans who own the products wish to send us completed conversions, we'll of course upload them to the server so that other owners can re-download those products.

Unfortunately, that's a dealbreaker for me. I'd like to contribute, but don't have the time or inclination to convert an entire product line. I would have liked to see a system where we could send in our converted files and a coordinator would QA them and keep a running list of what is needed for each set. Contributors would get compensated based on how many pages were submitted and passed QA.

But I can understand why you wouldn't want to do it this way. It would require effort and resources dedicated to working on older products when those resources could be spent on creating new products instead, and that's where the money is.

Either way, it's good to get an official list of requirements on this, so now we know. Hopefully, this doesn't kill the conversion efforts.

Its not that I want to kill conversion efforts but I need it understood that we are simply lacking the manpower to moderate and implement this kind of thing. Even if we created some kind of tag-team system, offering split compensation based on page count...would be an absolute nightmare (I mean our accounting is hard enough as it is).

On the other hand, if two motivated "converters" were to work together to do a conversion of a single product, we could probably compensate both with freebies. I wouldn't want to stray into the 25 people working on individual pages per product realm though. That would get extremely messy and would require heavy moderation.

I started to do some work on Hellworks 3, but as i was working on it....
Oh SHINNY

Thanks for the requirements, that's actually how I've been doing it so that the new version is a mirror of the old.

Swampworks is getting closer to finished, I go back and forth between working on several projects but I think I'll be done with this by the end of October.

Does www.getdropbox.com count as a secure server or do you have something else in mind?

Eric

Does someone have an easy template we could use for crop marks and safe cut areas?

Denny - I personally would prefer (and I assume so would anyone else who owns a Silhouette) to get partially completed sets as they come. The people who are doing the conversions probably don't have that much time to work on conversion so it might take a while to fully convert a set.

That being said I have two solutions for how to manage this:

1) Have partial sets uploaded to you that you provide links to on request (to make sure people don't get stuff they didn't pay for)

or

2) Have "internal trading" where someone will request from you to confirm what they have purchased to the people who are working on the conversions. That way no one will get stuff they don't pay for

For #2 there is an easy way to control it... we can just use a free tool at getdropbox.com (mentioned above) and share folders with people on the forum based on your approval. Or, if you prefer, you can control the dropbox account and give out access directly, making it a very easy for you to grant access. I would also be happy to setup the dropbox folder completely and then turn over control to you so you can just add people to folders as needed (no setup and minimal maintenance)


Benefits to WWG to implement one of the two solutions above:
As someone who is a loyal customer I personally would really appreciate if we could implement one of the solutions. Especially with some of the more difficult models (ex. many parts of swampworks or the Hellworks 3D statue) this would be a huge value to me and others and shouldn't be too difficult to manage (just simple user access). Another benefit I would point out is by using dropbox you can have the people working on these collaborate so there is no duplication, which is already a problem. This will consequently allow sets to be converted faster and provide more customer value add. It will also make your Terrainlinx conversions faster, since the more props that are converted by users the less WWG employees have to convert, freeing up their time for other projects.

In short: the above solutions really bring more value/benefit to WWG then not implementing them; it makes the customers happy and reduces workload for WWG.

Please give it some thought,

Thanks,

For the base GSD file, any one of them saved as a new file called "template" and with the current cut lines removed works great for a DSG template. I made my own jpg, psd, and png background files for the image editing by just converting a random Himil from PDF to psd or jpg file and then removing all of the stuff but the regmarks.

Worked for me on the 12 or so pages of my own personal card stock model project, the annoyance is when it comes to converting, it's a lot of image manipulation to get a page done. I actually didn't have that hard of a time doing it for my personal conversions as I was able to easily combine the source files and the reg mark templates.

So the two tests builds I made worked great and now I am in the process of converting all of the other files I have to Robo cuttable, but evem with these being my own cretion it still takes a bit of time, to add stuff then make all the pdfs etc, and make sure they work.

When I say secure I mean get in touch with me in private upon completion and I'll set you up with a secure upload portal Once that's done I can go over the file and then reintroduce it into the actual WWG catalog (here and Paizo, OBS) and previous purchasers can redownload it from their account.



Its not that I don't understand the benefits and the added value behind GSD conversions. The problem is that doing it piecemeal just doesn't work for me. Its an all or nothing proposition at the moment due to time and resource limitations. If we went ahead with the above two suggestions, my inbox would be flooded with purchase confirmation requests and then I'd spend most of my time digging around for purchase validation and the associated correspondence involved. Though it may seem quiet, WWG has a substantial user base and our customer service end of the biz is already heavily loaded. This would add a layer of chaos to an already strained production schedule and extremely limited staff. I just don't have time for that kind of thing.

All that I can promise is that if and when complete conversions are sent my way, I will make them available to everyone via the store. If you're chomping at the bit to get at incomplete conversions by fellow members and they are willing to share them with you, then I suggest that you contact them directly and perhaps do a screen cap of your e-mail purchase confirmation or your actual account purchase history.

What I don't know won't hurt me...

I understand Denny, I hope I didn't come off as too pompous with my post, I was just trying to make a convincing argument

Would you mind if I setup a dropbox account for the people who are working on converting sets (if the people working on it are willing)? I would set it up then transfer access to one of the fans converting the sets. It would help them collaborate better if they can see what the other people are working on. I want to try to help in some way since I don't have a lot of time to work on converting sets.

No you didn't come off as pompous at all. I just wanted you to see it from our perspective.

I can't support the dropbox thing publicly because it potentially allows users who haven't purchased the products access to the products themselves. Or rather; they may say they are working on conversion simply to gain access to what is being shared. That kind of thing would have to be officially moderated (purchase validation) and like I said, at this point we don't have the staff resources to handle this kind of thing.

My suggestion is to work privately (in e-mail and PM) with other motivated converters.

Simply produce a grey pdf/png page similar to the tree example I posted back on page 2 to go with the GSD as the grey image contains no textures it should be okay to pass these around, to use them you simply re-import the coloured textures from your copy of the page over the grey area and align. It's a bit of messing about but should enable some swapping of gsd files to occur prior to the wwg crew getting a bit of time together to address the problem.

thinking about it you could use the wwg bottom banner as an alignment tool as it's on every page this could save a grey outline generation step simply generate a page with reg marks and image+bottom banner pdf then remove the graphic and leave reg marks and bottom banner re-combine in Gimp-photoshop, from your own copies...heck if Denny can confirm it's in the same position on everypage all you'd need do is say place bottom right reg mark 450 pixels left of banner and 67 pixels up from top.

Not optimal but might work as an interim solution...just some random thoughts

I fully agree with Denny on the completed set argument. I've been doing conversions on other people's stuff the past few weeks, and it really does make it more coherent. Squirmydad taught me everything I know about the conversion process, the only difference is that I prefer to make a larger GSD file that includes the graphics, so robocutter users don't even have to mess with PDF's; although I still make them in case someone wants to print their stuff on an office printer or something like I do, when I can.

I do all the resizing etc in photoshop, get it to within the guidelines, export a jpg image, make a silhouette as per the instructions, export a .jpg or .gif of that, make the GSD file, print it, test cut it, then create a PDF from that gsd file with cutepdf.

As to the person that asked for a template to use, a template isn't necessary, just draw down your photoshop guidelines to a 9x7.5 inch rectangle, i.e. 1 inch down from the top, one inch up from the bottom, a half inch in on each side.

I wonder how much image quality is lost in the PDF intermediate graphics format PDF conversion chain. It would be interesting to see some "before-and-after" samples.

the way I do it, I see zero difference, even zoomed in 400%

I spent a lot of time, trial and error, tweaking settings in PS and Adobe, to make it this way though


open the orig. in PS, do the work that needs to be done there, and I save as a full BMP, usually 20-40 megs per page.

insert it in robomaster, and do the work that needs to be done there. Saving a full size GSD (20-40 megs).

once I'm done in robomaster, I print to PDF using custom high quality setting (usualy ends up, about .5 of meg bigger then the original PDF was, but with registration marks ect.)

I then delete the background image from robomaster, leaving just cut/score lines and save a GSD again (about 5k)....

this leaves me with three files
one super-size GSD, with both image and cut lines, for anyone who wants to do it all out of robomaster
one near original size pdf, modified to fit robomaster, and with registration marks, and one small GSD, with just the cut/score lines, for anyone wanting to print and cut separately.

I did some 400% zoom ins, and hosted them, the images are about 2 meg each....I don't think I'm showing anything usable, but mods feel free to edit out the links if this is not acceptable.

looking at the flame, and the texture pixles on the stone walls, I can't see even a pixel of difference, and certainly printed out normal size they look identical (to me at least)

Original pdf zoomed in 400%
http://67.55.34.166/Blog/before.png

after all processing and printed back to PDF, zoomed in 400%
http://67.55.34.166/Blog/after.png

*edit* it shold be noted, that I've not had to deal with any real organic shapes yet though, so the need to do silhouettes hasn't come up yet

*edit 2* I also do, what was said below me, everything is forced to 300 DPI

I force my images to 300dpi, even if they were designed at 200dpi, so I've not noticed any quality difference at all. I actually have some side by sides of OneMonk's figures I did earlier on, as I had the same reservation, but there's no noticable difference that my non-bionic eyes can detect.

Thanks Lord Manimal. I learned what I know from MelEbbles.

I like the three-tiered file approach; GSD with image, GSD with no image and seperate pdf. With those whopping 25mb files that had the 300dpi image combined with the GSD file I found they zip down nicely to just 6mb. If you have the gsd and the pdf seperate, they're only 4mb seperatley, 1.2mb zipped together.

YMMV

Eric

I can see the sense in that if bandwidth is a concern, squirmy. I just figure that if you can afford a robo-cutter, high speed internet is a foregone conclusion. lol Even cell phones can pull down the 25meg files without a hitch in this day and age, but maybe not, up there in Alaska. heh heh

I am, by nature, bandwidth and storage space frugal.

Getting close to the end of Swampworks, I believe I'm still on target for an end of October finish. I print at least two of every file and run them through the cutter, and then build everything because my daughter is having great fun using all the pieces as an ever expanding Fairy home and my son like to play Star Wars-Endor battles with them. Last night he pointed out to me that if I didn't mount the huts on the treess then they'd work well as Wookie dwellings.

This morning I decided to try a Terrainlinx experiment with the tiles; I made a pdf of the generic big floor gsd file and then centered a swamp tile on it in Photoshop. I decided to shrink the swaamp tile to 93% size so as to get as much of the original art to fit as possible.

Printed, ran through the cutter, the tiles match up nicely so this is the method that I'll be using at home for the mine and the kids layouts. I won't be including this mod in the finaal package that I send upstream to WWG as I don't feel like doing it for the 1" and 1.5" versions. Just thought I'd share what I did in case people who do use those tile styles want to do some converting of their own.

Just so that its not lost in the chaos...

We've noted a few times that we are not currently supporting the release or sharing of "blank" TLX templates. Its part of a system that we own and administer, which ties directly into our production pipeline (re: ability to survive) and will not be shared. It is to be used ONLY with WorldWorksGames products and textures. This is a major problem with the digital format and the conflicts it creates with a product like TerrainlinX.

Sounds protective and anal I know but it has to be said. It may change in future though but for now, we need some releases behind us before we consider the larger scope of TLX conversions.

I know, and thanks for reiterating that.
I have no intention of making any mods to upload of any TLX material, for personal use, however, having Swampworks tiles that use the TLX construction paradigm is the bees-knees.

Anyone interested in partial conversions of older WWG sets, please email me at zangad@gmail.com. When you email me, please include your message board handle.

Does anyone have a template I could load in to Photoshop or GIMP? Something that has the boundaries for the cutting zone and the registration marks on it? Would like to get started on converting stuff while my cutter is on its way. Thx!

And a related question - what software do you guys (WWG) use for generating the GSD files? You obviously already have the cuts set up in illustrator (or whatever you use) since they match the colored lines. Do you really use the craft robo software to duplicate all of that, or is there some way to export a GSD?