In this thread: http://www.worldworksgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11498 I posted up some pics of a kitbash for Deadfall based on an 1880s small Pharo hall. It included a few custom pieces (obviously) that I thought might go over well for a potential kitbash submission.

... And got no comments. Dammit.

So did I screw this one up, or just post it where no one was looking? And, in either case, what would anyone want to see added to make this a formal kitbash?

(I'll leave this question stew for a day or two as I work on revising other stuff tommorow, now that I'm caught up with other things.)

I saw them. As kitbashes I can't speak to their fate and it will be up to the review committee to decide ultimately but off hand I'd say what you've got there is too similar to what's in the actual set and/or too close to stuff planned for future expansions to gain official sanction for release.

Looking good so far. Keep stretching those kitbash muscles. Maybe some things like:
diagonal walls (and posts to go with)
double height walls in multiple variations
more props

That ^^^^^^ is what is really needed in Kitbashes.
The walls are nice but props are what really make a build interesting.

For the general Store
Piles of cans, Racks of common mining tools, Fabric and misc sundry items.

Hitching posts

For your Saloon:
A Bar, player piano, poker table

A gate leading into town

Props for misc stores:
A coffin for the coffin makers shop, Jail cells, bank teller window

The list just goes on and on...

Does that actually fit in with the definition of a kitbash? I thought the modified storefront piece was precisely what a kitbash should be - it modifies a piece from the set. Making a pack of props - does that utilize existing textures or geometry?

Wow, Matt seems really deadset against this one. I'm a little surprised by that, considering how small it is and how unlikely the front and faro tables were going to be... I was thinking of doing a steamworks set next, but not so sure now. :S

(Obviously, I appear to have stepped on toes, stomped down a few times, then ran a truck over them... definately not my intention!)

I may do more props or work on something else once my Mayhem Mall revisions are done, but I kinda want to find out what's going in the next Deadfall update (now listed as TBA on the front page) before I do much more.

The difficult thing about doing kitbashes of new things for a set like this is that it will be receiving additional support in future releases. These future releases could have some of what you plan to create and that is something that we try to prevent with kitbashes.

Jaynz, if I were you, I would continue to work on the bashes and let the kitbash review team take care of deciding what is and is not okay for release. I figure the more you make the more likely something will get through and the more practice you get with the creation process. I say keep the creativity coming.

Definitely keep doing what you're doing. You've got a lot of creativity. Most of what you do doesn't directly apply to the genres I build for, but I really enjoy seeing the works in progress. Just bet your happiness on the process of making new things rather than then acceptance of those new things by the formal kitbash release process - even if something you've kitbashed doesn't get accepted, it still can inspire other people to make more cool things!

Oh, more's coming. I'm going to switch back to the revision of the two Mayhem mall shops first though, while adopting a few things that I've learned in doing other builds to it. Today was "New Hard Drive Day" as well, which was a neccessary evil, but lost a day of project work.

I'm just an interested bystander on this, but I think the review team should tune its criteria:

• WWG isn't flooding us with new releases, so I think WWG has more ideas and projects than time to complete and publish them. So allowing similar kitbashes like this aren't decreasing what you could publish in any meaningful way.
• Each kitbash adds to the value of the associated set, making it more appealing for purchase
• If a new official set supercedes a kitbash, just take that kitbash off the site (or leave it up, much as I like the kitbashes, I would still buy the official version -- I think most people would)
• An inclusive policy rewards fan effort, and makes us all happy. A restrictive policy isn't the end of the world, but it's not another reason to love you.
• There's no downside for the kitbasher to have a model listed & then pulled later if an official set makes it redundant--they already did the work before submitting, they've gotten to share and receive kudos, and you're not cutting off money (since kitbashes are free)

I realize that you've recently revamped your kitbash approach, and working to get the process working again, so this may not be the time for a change. But a change like this is more one of attitude than anything. And from my perspective there is really only upside to being inclusive/lenient. You still want to review for quality, and you don't want to put up something that duplicates a piece that has already been rendered. But I don't think those are the issues here.

My two cents (who knew two cents could go so long?).

Steve

Well said.

It can be... It just requires thinking slightly differently about Kitbashes.

For example the 3D Hitching post could be pretty easily built using the textures from any of the following: Deadman Canyons Bluffs (Stone post), Building Essentials 2D hitching posts (square wooden posts) or a recolored version of Hinterland's Forests Logs (round posts). Then you add your own geometry to them.

The town "Gate" could be created using textures from the streets of blood sidewalks on the gridless ground tiles, rope from the building essentials 2d hitching post and wide board textures the edges of the walls Front in from the building essentials set. You would just need to make up some slightly new geometry for this, but it wouldn't be all that hard to do.

Both of these fall fully under the restrictions listed above but still brings something new and useful to the set.

Most of the kitbashes released lately have stuck generally with both the same textures and geometry of the base set. While that makes sense to fill in the gaps of existing sets, IMHO it should by no means be the only way kitbashes are made.

Look at some of the really old Kitbash threads, and you'll see that many of those used to be much more free with their geometry then what we have today.

Okay, this weekend I'm going to see if I can't knock out some of the 'fancy' walls for Peguccis. I'm going to shoot for 4 wall pages with the new texture and then another page for the new fronting. The wall is based on a real western/casino wall that I found perusing some Wild West gambling books, mixed in with the existing Essentials wall set.

Comments more than welcome!

Fake Persian Rug
Needed a larger base to play with on this pass, though I haven't finished it yet. This is actually a fake Persian rug (public domain image, modified and lined) of the type that wasn't uncommon in 'fancy' western buildings. Great color for this booster, so I threw it in.

6" Gaslight Wall
6" Gaslight wall piece. Basically the replacement for the 'plain wall'... Includes two 'fancy' gaslights to break up the look of the wall.

Frontage
Showing the interior this time. The frontage sheet includes saloon doors and a spare 'regular' blank 3" store front for direct use with essentials. I removed the signage from the front directly and will make that a separate "prop" piece. This will give the set some 'customizing' options for different signs and fronts.

3" Walls, Window and Door
Again, nothing terribly difficult, just replacing the bare wooden upper wall with our 'fancy' wallpaper for these two pieces.

Oh, those are looking GOOD, Jaynz!

Thanks, guys. I think I overdid it a little on the props sheet today, which I finished up in design but haven't built yet. Not sure if I can get to it tonight or tommorow morning (so I wanted to give a head's up). The props sheet includes two Faro tables, a craps table, a roulette table, vignt-et-un table, big six table and wheel, and a sic-bo table... all of which texture matched to the main Deadfall set and drawn or sourced to historical pieces from 1880.

Among the things I learned. At 300dpi for 25-28mm gaming, a playing card is 12x18 pixels and a dollar bill is 30x13 pixels. Most coins are between 1 and 3 pixels in diameter...

Dice Wheel Not my best cutting job (actually, it didn't look THAT bad until I blew it up in the picture, dammit).. but it shows the three-part assembly of the wheel, and the two parts of the money table. I actually considered making the assembly so that the wheel could spin, but that was likely overdoing it.

Craps and Roulette Tables Three piece tables, made from a long flat and two 'legs'. I originally wanted to go wrought-iron with the leg look, but couldn't get a workable pattern, and an ornate black iron leg is pretty hard to make out on a black background... Came out pretty well, though, and craps dice are tiny on the table...

Faro Tables New version using the two-piece build. The wife finds these superior, so I guess this is the one I'm going with. Same table-tops as before along with the new table design.

Game Tables Similar to the two Faro tables with new covers. A lot of fun with these, playing around with 1880s money and vintage playing cards to get the look right. And... the last of the custom tables for this update! Yay!

Last pic for the night, the 'current state' build. Vash the Stampede (with Kuroneko) is looking to stop potential violence as Virginia Maxwell comes in to more than likely cause some... The casino is a bit overstuffed with tables here (the props are more than enough for a 6x6 build, and can easily fit a 12x6 grand hall build), and no chairs (get those from DF:BE), but the effect is pretty good.

I like the structure better too.

Looking like the establisment of a while gaming empire!

Regarding a 'spinning wheel': After buliding the "Maiden of the High Seas", I wished my helmswheel did actually spin rather than just being glued in place stationary. [Yeah, extrordinary small detail - sometimes I just get finicky like that!] The next time I build the Maiden (in a modified form) I'm going to use a small pin/tack to allow it to spin (with a bit of foamcore behind it inside the steering structure. For the gambling wheel, I would do the same with a bit inside the post.

Dice? They would be out of scale (horrifically), but I might try to glue down a couple of the micro dice from the Wizkids Pirates ships packs... They would likely be more relatively closer to the large fuzzy dice hanging off your car mirror, but sometimes I will do a 'what-the-heck'.... And maybe gluing a micro bead on the roulette wheel?... Both would contribute immensely to the 3D look, even if being a little silly sizewise - and being outside the realm of true cardstock...

Is it wrong that as I started doing the props and obviously needing to expand the size of this thing, I kept coming up with backstory to the place? I think my brain is telilng me that I should probably get some writing done soon...



If you can get a pin that's less than, or just slightly more than, 1/4" in length, this will work well. The only thing is, it's nearly impossible to make out the individual dice on the dice wheel, so you're getting some diminishing returns on that one. But it might be fun to spin around just for the hell of it.

I am working on an 'interactive' prop for my Evil Genius lair... I just haven't decided yet how I'm going to package all of it - since there's nothing in TLX that works with its look. I may give it as a freebie on my site - just not sure... (Hint for this prop, think of Goldfinger and Dr. Evil...)



Insanely big for this set, unfortunately, and I was shooing for a fairly authentic look. Dice come up to be about 2 to 3 pixels across and the bead is already a little oversized.

Just a head's up. Still working on this one, and seeing what all it would take to make it a 'complete' booster - which is basically a poop-load of walls. Got another four pages of walls done (not assembled, just to save some printing coin on my side). I've got about 6 or 7 more pages to get done, mostly 6" wall variants, then I'll be looking at wrapping this one up for submission finally...

Quick update of the remaning 6" walls. Been a bit busy to get the rest done, though I'm down to the signage and a box safe.

Don't make me buy this set to make them....I have the templates to do it!

OK stop yelling at me! I bought Deadfall buildings and can start working on angled posts and walls. Issue being... if you want angled exterior walls...I'll need to do transition tiles between the Deadfall Buildings floring, and the Deadfall Streets...which I didn't buy, and really dion't have a need to...grr....its'$12 bucks....I can afford it...just not right now.

*confuses* Do you want me to use your templates to make diagonals for this?

Sharing the template wouldn't be cool by WWG.

Don't worry about it. I'll get it at next paycheck. I have to do the walls and posts first, LOL.

Well, for this set, I was going to leave the anchors and posts alone. Making the diagonals wouldn't be too hard, but this is already becoming IMMENSE for a submission of this type - and I don't want have the Den impact too heavily on WWG's future plans. :S

I really need to get the last two or three pages for this weeked (sinage and 6" lower front wall) and wrap this puppy up.

(And, honestly, if we cleared it with Denny and Matt, I doubt they would mind too much about us sharing work for kitbashing so long as they were kept in the loop and we were basing it on products we both had...)

I can do the angled walls and posts as a stand alone set. But if you want to include it in the den, by all means. I just don't want to duplicate work.

Like I said, this set's getting immense, as it's already 15 pages in size and I need three more to wrap it up. Adding posts (though I textured this one to deliberately not need them) and angled walls would up this past the 20 page point... :S