well im not exactly "new" to the game, ive played a few times with some old school guys. i know that some people dont like the new rules and stuff. im not here to talk about that. i do have a question though:

do i need a battle grid?

when i played the first time with the old school guys i know, nothing was drawn out or written out (besides character sheets and stuff). it was fun, however what i didnt like was that when you walked into a room or area with 5 or 6 monsters in it, how do you know how far away everyone is or where the monsters are standing? do you just tell the players (if you are dm'ing) that "the orc is 30 ft away, the dragon is 40 ft away to your right and....". that would get crazy. at least i think so.

now, that being said...i do kinda like the unknown factor, mainly because it invokes stupid decisions or overlooking certain things which makes the game more unpredictable. at the same time though, i do want some structure...hence the grid and movement and all that.

so what do you guys think? im going to be the dm by the way in my upcoming newly formed group.

Umm... short answer... not really.

Long answer...

What few 'old guys' (me included) I know, have always used miniatures. They just use the same crappy minis or pennies or what not, and at least a vinyl sheet with the drawn map.

Even before 4th ed came out, D&D was largely miniatures based. I think because it was so easy to actually get usable plastic minis from WOTC. In fact, that is the reason I purchased the D&D miniatures game, I wanted minis for playign adventures, and it really helps.

4th ed is different in that everything is literally spelled out in squares.


The fact is that miniatures with decent scenery really is a lot better for play. D&D 4thed really tightens up the experience. Try running dungeon with 1" chunky (no walls) and yo'd be suprised at how quick the game and the experience comes together.

If you haven't got minis to use, you can get lots of plastics on eBay for cheap. Just get what you want from some super store.

well i have some mini's from my old heroquest game that i could use, but i mean, if any of my players decide to be something other than an elf, dwarf, wizard, or barbarian....it wont really be exact. but maybe im missing the point of minis. maybe the point is just to mark where everyone is. i dont know though, does everyone try to get a mini that looks like their character?

and as far as the battle grids go, does everyone use them for the WHOLE game, or just the encounters?

oh and when i said "old school guys" i meant guys that played the older versions of dnd. they arent really old....most in their early 30's. but im just 27 myself.

My advice... Fast version...

Running 4E D&D combats are MUCH easier with a battle grid.
And you dont need minis. paper tokens or standees (some are a free kitbash) will work just fine.

Running a roleplaying encounter with no combat.... You don't need a grid.


If you want more explaniation, let me know I'd be happy to answer questions.

Giant wrench coooooollll!

Do you "need" to have a mini that looks like the Character or the bad guy? no.
Does it Help, add flavor, possilbe enjoyment to the encounter, game? i think yes.

I mean that is what the Terrain (like WWG) does, it adds a little extra to set the scene, give a more accurate represnetation of the events and sourroundings.

Yes all you Really need to do is mark off where the things are in relation to each other so if some one shifts or is shifted (for 4th) takes a 5 ft Step (for 3rd) or Moves (for any other version and many d20) you know where and how far they moved. Yeah can and before 3rd we just described it with no minis at all, but the "d20" movement really made it easier and less confusing to have a represntation out there.

I Like having the right or close approximation to what is there, but i can live with out it and use some that isnt' right excatly, An elf instead of a Drow Archer, or a Lizardfolk instead of a Dragon born. But if i have the right weapons, the right species i am happier.

We did have a guy who would design his characters off of minis in our group for a few years, he always used Reaper minis and would loveingly paint and Mod them to get it exactly right. And that was as a player, but as a DM he would just throw things down. Once getting every player really annoyed when he put down the mini of a Small Black dragon, and after rounds of questions he was like yeah it's the right mini for the dragon.. so we in the end approach and end up fighting the thing. But as his description progressed, things didn't start to add up, there was a Large creature ridding it, and a number of things, (like our attacks were REALLY missing and it had a much higher SR than we thought).
Turns out it was in fact a "Huge" black dragon and he just didn't bother to get out the right mini (even though there were about 3 that would have worked, within arms distance) which we never would have approached let alone fought. So having as resaonalbe represntation a possible can make a difference in the happines and survivablity, or a much better description....

thanks for the great responses guys! youve answered some questions, but also raised some more

one of my main points of confusion right now is with movement. for instance: all the PC's walk into a large room and there are 4 monsters in the room and they are different different distances apart and away from the players. so i guess my question is...do i show distance on the grid and go by "number of squares away" or do i just go by "he is 30ft away from you". seems like im torn between playing with ALL imagination and never using a grid (thats how i was introduced to the game) and now after playing games like heroclix, heroquest, etc that all use grids and squares to determine distance between figures. so what do you do when you start an encounter? do you go by squares for distance?

next question is about the minis. its easy for the players to go out and get a couple of minis that suit their character, but i can just see me having to buy a mini for every monster in the game. that will get crazy and my wife will have a fit if she knows that im buying MORE minis for yet ANOTHER game. so what do i do here? the players enter a room with 5 minataurs. well i dont have any minataur figs, so do i now have to go out and buy these things? or can i just use a token or a paper cutout or something?

First, look at the WWG miniatures: there are or .

For make shift minis, if you have a image editing program (PhotoShop, Gimp and etc), you can make some fairly easily:



Pilfer one minotaur you like.

Make a standee base:



Add your mino:



You can reverse and fill the image for the back of the miniature.

DO NOT redistribute them or sell them, since the images are most likely not yours

ah, standees would work nicely. and i can always do as you said...google and image and slap it on a paper stand.

and i wouldnt sell the paper standees any more than people would buy my piece of crap paper "mini" and i dont think theres a lot of profit to be made on crappy printed graphics on printer paper. now professional graphics on card stock, thats a good business...*sigh* if i only i didnt suck so hard at photoshop

If you have the time resources etc and you want the 5 Minoturs i say got for it, if you can't for what ever reason (wife, money, space etc) donot kill your self over it, it's a game and they are just play aids.

I mean last night in our d20 SW game i needed 20 Stormtroopers (i actualyl have 20 stromtroopers but i didn't have them with me) so i used the 15 i had and said to the players "these are all stormtroopers", for my personal ease as the GM i made the things that weren't really stormtrooper minis the Officers, etc so it was easier to keep track of damage etc, but know of use were like sorry that's not a stormtrooper, goblin, etc you can't use it. The big issue we all had with the Dragon was the DM told us the mini was right when it was actually about 6 age catagories older, it went from like a wyrmling to an old Adult dragon becuase he used the wrong mini, had he used another mini of the proper size i wouldn't have cared, becuase with dragons the bigger they are in genral the nastier they are, a small dragon and a Huge Dragon are really different.

As long as everyone KNOWS what it is, (or is supposed to be and isn't due to spells, illusions etc) who cares if it's plastic, paper cut out, or a metal you painted.

I am all for the 30 ft, as long as every one knows 30 ft is about 6 squares inchs, i don't care if it is in squares or inchs most of us have played enoguh versiosn with and with out squares it doens't get us flustered. But if you are going to rely on descrption only, you have to give good descrption. I personally tend to like sometimes not having say 4 of the same minatour figures becuase it is easier for record keeping etc. As long as all of the players understand that the X is Minotuar it does not cause problems.

And heres the thing you mentioned you played other games, use those to bulk up what ever you have, I used many of the old Mage Knight Minotaur critter, if it's looks close use it, (even if it's not close but the right size use it).

just as long as you make it clear what it should be and eveyone is on the same page you should be fine.

As to the 30 ft away minotuar that is kind of up you and your group what tastes they like best, and in some cases who or what is the the party. in our group we do tend to have the rooms set up, and have the mini in there and in the case you described it. i wouldn't have had them walk into the room becuase with our group lord knows some one woudl complain, that i never walked in, or i woudl not have moved so close to the mino, so half of them would be trying to get into the corner as far away from it as possible. i honestly would have who ever opened the door be in the doorway, and the mino where ever he was in the room, and you proced from there.
letting people move and act when they can if it's combat, so they get to put themselves in the room or not (unless the mini was hiding and pops out 30 ft away then heeh i would have listened to where people wondered and well who ever was closests is liket to be the one who found poor mino...
if it's not comabt i'd just go with the description.

I agree with other people. If it's going to be a simple combat with limited options for movement, etc, then it's fine to go with simple imagination. If you go with a more complex battle, often it's just a ton easier to toss down some minis.

If you want to buy some of the WotC's prepainted minis (or a few other brands), I recommend Auggie's Games (i don't think he's a competitor in any sense of the word, so I think it's okay to put a link)

You can actually buy just the minis you want at some of the lowest prices I've found online. Other places sometimes had better prices, but if you look at their shipping policy, you wind up spending more money. Auggie just charges a small fee based on the total cost (and nothing if you spend more than $100) If your players want minis that match their characters, it would work well to just order them all at the same time.

k, got a quesiton....

ive started developing my story and stuff in preparation for my upcoming first DM game. what do i use for a battle grid? ive thought of a couple of options:

1. just print out several copies of the included battle grid in the back of the DM guide book

2. buy a dry erase board (whiteboard)...space pieces of masking tape 2mm apart, and run black spray paint over it...then rmove the tape and ill have a grid to use dry erase markers on. however, my only concern is that ill end up wiping off the spray paint with dry erase cleaner. so i dont know

suggestions?

Another possibility - and the one I tend to prefer - is to get an easel pad with 1 inch squares.

This gives a lasting record of what the team has found as the adventure continues. carries them for $32 for 100 sheets (in two pads) 27x30.

There are larger pads around, but these are fairly cheap.

The Auld Grump

I think it's called abbytibby or somesuch...and it's just a thin sheet, similar to a 1/8" masonite.